What led me to God

[Loki]

Ruby,

Thanks for the info! A very interesting path you've travelled, and I'm glad to hear that your troubles are well and truly in the past. Just wanted to say that although the church gave you a framework to work within, and the support to move forward, at the end of the day you are here today because of who and what *you* are. You should be proud of what you've achieved because it is, and has always been, *you* that made the decisions, and seen them through. I guess you feel you couldn't have done this without your god, but I believe you're wrong - the platform you stand on now is one that you built.

Perhaps one day you'll find that you trust your own abilities enough to let go of your god, and perhaps not. But I hope you realise that the key player in the past 10 years of your life has been you.

 

[Samus]

Re: Re: Re: What led me to God

That's a very good question to ask.

Thanks!

I find that many Christians claim "God said this" and "God said that" while it does not jive at all with any situation. I have also seen instances of people saying God said such and such would happen...and it did happen.

Here's an area tricky for me. I am wary of people that claim to speak on behalf of God. "God says this, you must do that," I just don't buy it. Especially from some wacko on cable TV at 2 a.m. So I can understand why you look at that type of thing with a critical eye. It's a good thing, too.

On to the next statement. If I knew you well enough, I could probably predict a couple things that would happen to you, and they may very well turn out to be right. But I'm not God (at least, I don't think I am). Probability is on my side that I'll be right at least once, especially if I knew you well.

I am not ready to call the voice of God just another part of me. I need other things clarified or put to rest before I can drop my belief in God. Frankly, that seems terrifying in itself. How does one cope without a belief in God?

Fair enough. You sound like a true thinker, I have to commend you again. Don't listen to detractors that try to write you off as a loony.

Don't make dropping your belief in God the goal. Having things clarified and put to rest should be your goal. If you arrive at atheism, so be it. Losing faith that God exists isn't really terrifying. It's a lot like letting go of that teddy bear you loved as a child. Even though the bear is old and worn, and totally irrelevant in your day-to-day life, you still feel better holding on to it.

As I've stated before on these forums, I pretty much live my life like an atheist. I don't pray, don't attend church, don't thank God or ask him for anything, don't think of what God might do to me, or if I'm going to heaven. All that said, I leave open the possibility that God can exist, even if I'm content to believe he doesn't. Most myths don't perpetuate for thousands of years like the belief in God has, which in my mind, lends a little credibility to this God fella.

Where I have a problem with God is that we're not born with an awareness of God. We need to be taught about him in Sunday school, have the fear of hell drilled into us as impressionable youth. In theory, if someone was raised completely removed from theists, they would have no need for a God.

Then there are people that want to have a God in their lives, it gives them strength and simple explanations for things that go wrong in their life (God decided this was best...) To me, just deferring to the "it's God's will" excuse all the time is weak. Sometimes, things just happen and that's that. How do soul mates happen to meet? Why do people die at the most inopportune time? Those are difficult questions to deal with, and I don't like to use God as a cop-out.

Whatever you decide about God and the voices within you will be entirely up to you, just the way it should be.

 

[Ruby]

Hi, Ruby...

Thanks for posting your story. It takes a lot of guts to share that with anyone, let alone with a forum like this one.

As Yahzi and others have asserted, it may be possible that what you felt was the voice of God could have been borne of the same perception of your Mara and Max. As a Christian, I don't think it's necessarily so -- although it is clear to me that Mara and Max were definitely hallucinations and not demons or spirits.

Thank you for your kind post. There was a time, I was certain that "Mara" and "Max" had been demonic. I was certainly told that by the church I was attending. I am sure there are many Christians who tell me today that they were demons. I just can't believe that anymore.

It is amazing and wonderful, though, how you were able to come out of that obviously difficult time in your life and life free of the voices, without medication, without institutionalization, without the stigma of mental illness that millions in this country have to endure. While others here may say you should have sought psychiatric (or psychological) help at the start rather than go to a church, I am not sure that medication or hospitalization would have helped you as much as your experience did. I don't agree with the religious rationalization of obvious symptoms of mental illness as being spirits come to haunt or help us; but I also don't agree with locking up mentally ill people with other mentally ill people and somehow implying that they have control over their symptoms while pumping them full of drugs which we don't even really understand what makes them work. (badly constructed sentence, sorry!).

You are right. I only endured eight months of "hearing voices" for some it goes on for years. I am glad I turned to a church for help. I am not sure I would have been completely freed through psychiatric help.

I can see that your faith helped your toward wholeness of mind. Maybe you are not so sure about your faith now, but it brought you to a good place. If only we could find a way to use the healthy, healing parts of faith without the corruption and misuse of power to help more people in situations such as these.

Yes, that would be a wonderful thing!

 

[Ruby]

Ruby,

Thanks for the info! A very interesting path you've travelled, and I'm glad to hear that your troubles are well and truly in the past. Just wanted to say that although the church gave you a framework to work within, and the support to move forward, at the end of the day you are here today because of who and what *you* are. You should be proud of what you've achieved because it is, and has always been, *you* that made the decisions, and seen them through. I guess you feel you couldn't have done this without your god, but I believe you're wrong - the platform you stand on now is one that you built.

Perhaps one day you'll find that you trust your own abilities enough to let go of your god, and perhaps not. But I hope you realise that the key player in the past 10 years of your life has been you.

Thank you!!

You're not the same Loki from Delphi forums are you?

 

[Ruby]

Re: Re: Re: Re: What led me to God

Thanks!

Here's an area tricky for me. I am wary of people that claim to speak on behalf of God. "God says this, you must do that," I just don't buy it. Especially from some wacko on cable TV at 2 a.m. So I can understand why you look at that type of thing with a critical eye. It's a good thing, too.

Oh goodness, I get so furious at the TV evangelist crap. When Benny Hinn spoke in a evil deep voice (claiming it was the Holy Spirit) and said that anyone that came against him, and his ministry would have terrible things happen to them, I wanted to scream. How dare he use God like that.

On to the next statement. If I knew you well enough, I could probably predict a couple things that would happen to you, and they may very well turn out to be right. But I'm not God (at least, I don't think I am). Probability is on my side that I'll be right at least once, especially if I knew you well.

There were Christians who knew I should marry my husband before I did. This was when I was only friends with my hubby. I can still call it concidence.

Don't make dropping your belief in God the goal. Having things clarified and put to rest should be your goal. If you arrive at atheism, so be it. Losing faith that God exists isn't really terrifying. It's a lot like letting go of that teddy bear you loved as a child. Even though the bear is old and worn, and totally irrelevant in your day-to-day life, you still feel better holding on to it.

No, it's not my goal to drop my belief in God. It would take lots of things to cause me to drop that belief. It frightens me that I have even thought that I might be mistaken about my beliefs.

Then there are people that want to have a God in their lives, it gives them strength and simple explanations for things that go wrong in their life (God decided this was best...) To me, just deferring to the "it's God's will" excuse all the time is weak. Sometimes, things just happen and that's that. How do soul mates happen to meet? Why do people die at the most inopportune time? Those are difficult questions to deal with, and I don't like to use God as a cop-out.

I don't either. I get fed up with hearing "it's God's will" or even "all things work together for good......".

 

[c4ts]

Oh goodness, I get so furious at the TV evangelist crap. When Benny Hinn spoke in a evil deep voice (claiming it was the Holy Spirit) and said that anyone that came against him, and his ministry would have terrible things happen to them, I wanted to scream. How dare he use God like that.

I think I have found an explanation for demonic posession: Televangelism!

 

[Ruby]

I think I have found an explanation for demonic posession: Televangelism!

 

[Guest]

Dear Ms. Ruby,

I am pleased to see my quote in your signature. However, I am a bit confused why it is attributed to my 'literary agent'.

Perhaps you might enjoy another of my maxims:

We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.

Sincerely yours,

S. Holmes

 

[Ipecac]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What led me to God

No, it's not my goal to drop my belief in God. It would take lots of things to cause me to drop that belief. It frightens me that I have even thought that I might be mistaken about my beliefs.

A couple of years ago, triggered by the JREF, I had been trying to assimilate the whole "critical thinking" thing and looking at the world with opened eyes. The day I dropped my belief in god, my mind moved towards the possibility, and the belief kind of fell away. It was something of an odd sensation coming to that conclusion after a lifetime of belief, and a little frightening.

But what I got in return was wonderful - illumination.

 

[Star Of The Sea]

I can see that your faith helped your toward wholeness of mind. Maybe you are not so sure about your faith now, but it brought you to a good place. If only we could find a way to use the healthy, healing parts of faith without the corruption and misuse of power to help more people in situations such as these.

Finella
---,---'--{@

That is an excellent way of putting it. The religious impulse is very strong, and can be a source of greath strength and comfort. It is when the religious impulse is commodified and dogmatised that the problems arise. Ruby, is there a Quaker church near you? I feel you would get a great deal of love and support from these caring and compassionate people, regardless of your personal problems. Best of all, they will not be unforgiving or abandon you if you lose your faith or change your views.

regards,

Luke

 

[c4ts]

It's not termed as "insanity" either. Schizophrenia is a mental disorder that many suffer from. My incident with "hearing voices" lasted eight months. That is not anything like the illness of schizophrenia. People can live with the disorder for years and years. That whole incident happened to me over ten years ago.

That's because schitzophrenia does not necessarily mean hearing voices. You might have something else.

 

[Lord Kenneth]

If she claimed she was abducted by aliens, people would be far more willing to tell her she needs help.

How sad, that people have to be such hypocrites.

 

[Ruby]

Dear Ms. Ruby,

I am pleased to see my quote in your signature. However, I am a bit confused why it is attributed to my 'literary agent'.

Perhaps you might enjoy another of my maxims:

We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.

Sincerely yours,

S. Holmes

I am your biggest fan!!!!!!

 

[Lord Kenneth]

I almost have to agree with DC here.

The fact that you were very likely insane when you arrived at the conclusion that god exists is not a very good thing, as far as promoting or rationalizing your belief in him goes.

You seem to be better now though and I'm glad you conquered your insanity. Perhaps religion can actually lead to good things every now and then.

She was, and possibily still is, delusional.

She invents things based on the power of suggestion (take Penn & Teller's many exploits into it!), such as Ouiji boards, which do not work, as being the work of demons.

In fact, I think it is possible it was suggested to her that demons possessed her, based on some of what she said.
Anyways, Ouiji boards are said to be evil, and Ruby, not being able to tell fact from fiction in her mental state, believed it, and played a type of make-believe where she couldn't tell it was fake.

So religion suggesting to her that these demons are gone would have that effect. It's not religion's doing, it's still her insanity.

 

[Ruby]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What led me to God

A couple of years ago, triggered by the JREF, I had been trying to assimilate the whole "critical thinking" thing and looking at the world with opened eyes. The day I dropped my belief in god, my mind moved towards the possibility, and the belief kind of fell away. It was something of an odd sensation coming to that conclusion after a lifetime of belief, and a little frightening.

But what I got in return was wonderful - illumination.

One thing is for sure, I am getting lots of illumination from the Jref forums. I love the people on here. Most are far above me intellectually, but they don't all condescend to me.

 

[Ruby]

That is an excellent way of putting it. The religious impulse is very strong, and can be a source of greath strength and comfort. It is when the religious impulse is commodified and dogmatised that the problems arise. Ruby, is there a Quaker church near you? I feel you would get a great deal of love and support from these caring and compassionate people, regardless of your personal problems. Best of all, they will not be unforgiving or abandon you if you lose your faith or change your views.

regards,

Luke

I already attend a wonderful little interdenominational church. I have an awesome church family and the best Pastor ever. I don't know of any quaker churches around here....but thanks for the suggestion!

 

[Ruby]

That's because schitzophrenia does not necessarily mean hearing voices. You might have something else.

Ok, the cats out of the bag...I was abducted by aliens...just as DC thinks.


Seriously, the incident that happened to me is over ten years dead. I don't know what it would have been termed as by a Psychologist. I think they might find it amazing that it only lasted eight months.

 

[c4ts]

Ok, the cats out of the bag...I was abducted by aliens...just as DC thinks.


Seriously, the incident that happened to me is over ten years dead. I don't know what it would have been termed as by a Psychologist. I think they might find it amazing that it only lasted eight months.

You may have just psyched yourself out, then. Or you could have found a way of ignoring the symptoms of mental illness without curing the disease. I sincerely hope the latter is not true.

 

[Denise]

Many people think that hearing voices means a person has Schizophrenia. This isn't true. Mood disorders such as depression can also cause auditory hallucinations. Post partem depression can also cause brief periods of psychosis in which the victim hears voices.

 

[Ruby]

Many people think that hearing voices means a person has Schizophrenia. This isn't true. Mood disorders such as depression can also cause auditory hallucinations. Post partem depression can also cause brief periods of psychosis in which the victim hears voices.

Yes, that is true. That is one reason I could never call my episode "Schizophrenia". It was brief psychosis. Why it occurred through playing with an ouija, I do not know. My mental state at the time was one of loneliness and social phobia. I still struggle with social phobia.