Good for you. Most, in my experience, read slightly high.
Cont: Electric Vehicles II
- Thread starter acbytesla
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I drove big old trucks with the Ford V8 engines. US freeways have a minimum and maximum limit, I went about 60 mph max because I got the best range out of a tank of fuel. Big displacement running lower rpm wasn't all that bad done right. Drafting big box trucks helped a lot too. Crossed a lot of the plains states like that.
Years later I was still playing big gear, low rpm when the car allowed.
My son just found out about a jeep like vehicle with a no computer <2L 4 cyl diesel and a standard trans. Not fast, not powerful but exactly the type of car I like best.
Given a parts support network long term it's great.
Chinese support for thier EV models isn't great where I am. The cars are sold in town now but showrooms only, no shops.
That's a big deal for a car with complicated electronics. I need to be able to fix stuff myself in this area.
Years later I was still playing big gear, low rpm when the car allowed.
My son just found out about a jeep like vehicle with a no computer <2L 4 cyl diesel and a standard trans. Not fast, not powerful but exactly the type of car I like best.
Given a parts support network long term it's great.
Chinese support for thier EV models isn't great where I am. The cars are sold in town now but showrooms only, no shops.
That's a big deal for a car with complicated electronics. I need to be able to fix stuff myself in this area.
malbui
Beauf
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Rolfe
Adult human female
It's something forum members warn newbies about as regards the MG4. Don't assume you have some wiggle room, because you don't.
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
Most of the cars I've driven over many years read about four US miles an hour fast, which seems to have been a kind of standard for analog speedometers to allow for error, wear, and tire choice. Not so my wife's Honda with a digital speedo. It's dead on. No cable friction, spring relaxation, etc. Here. Most speed limits allow about 5 mph leeway, and if you're used to a known error you might add that in. Do that in that Honda = ticket!
acbytesla
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On the highways in the US, it is very easy to check. Interstates and most State highways have mile markers every mile. Every car I have ever had is very close.if you're using the right size tire and wheels. Using oversized wheels and tires is a good way to get a speeding ticket.
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bruto
Penultimate Amazing
Yes, mile markers are very handy, with ten best for accuracy, since there's a bit of variation in readng speed. I've seldom had a car that was accurate, though, except when running a reasonable oversized tire, when it was generally right on.
These days gps is also very good for checking.
I should also mention that, especially in pre-digital days speedo and odo readings did not always match. If the bias is built into the drive end (gearing from the transmission output) they might but mechanical resistance or spring error inthe speedo is not transmitted to the odo.
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Dabop
Master Poster
10mph is 16kph so on a 100 road your '10 over' is out of the first 'speeding category' and well into the second!!!!
Even '5mph over' (8kph over) is at the very top end of the first category speeding-- and almost into the second category...
Cat 1- up to 10kph (6.8mph) over
Cat 2 11kph up to 20kph over (6.8mph up to 12.4mph over)
then you get into the big money ones.... 20kph up to 30kph over (12.4mph up to 18.6mph over)
30kph up to 40kph (18.6mph up to 24.8mph)
Then into the 'lose your licence (and car) on the spot....
More than 40kph/24.8mph over....
eg from https://roadsense.org.au/speeding-fines-qld/
Oh, and in Australia- they do NOT need to 'pull you over' for speeding (and usually wont for minor speeding offences)- instead you will get a 'ticket in the mail' (usually most people will get it by email instead lol) which is sent to the person the vehicle is registered to- oh and if it wasn't you driving then you are required to nominate that person who was driving- or else the registered owner cops the points and fine instead....
That's assuming it came from the police cars onboard speed/rego cameras, and not a roadside camera (ie fixed or mobile speed camera, redlight/speed camera at traffic lights, average speed cameras (two or more cameras that dont record your instantaneous speed, but the average speed between two points) or vehicle trip time monitoring cameras...
The days of a copcar sitting by the side of the road with a 'hairdrier' have long past....
Dabop
Master Poster
That's with the old mechanical speedos- at best their accuracy was rather dubious (they were allowed +10% from new here- after 40 years anyone's guess how accurate they are lol)- but many modern speedos are 'dead on'- some even cross check from the onboard GPS to the speedo to check for other factors that affect accuracy (tyre wear and inflation levels can make a noticeable difference to the speedo reading- and thats even assuming they are the same roiling diameter as the factory originals (not always a safe bet...)
If your car is newer than 2000- its not always a safe bet you CAN 'add on a few'- best bet rather than relying on 'mile markers' (which may not reflect actual SPEED errors at all) is check your speedo against a GPS (phone or inbuilt...)
The speedo can read incorrect speed even if the odometer is showing the correct 'mileage turnovers' on it- if the speedo's spring or magnet is weak due to age in a mechanical speedo, it can be out by a considerable margin even if the odometer is showing 'spot on' by mile marker testing...
acbytesla
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You can get a ticket for going one mile over in the US. And every jurisdiction has different laws and penalties. There are towns that develop reputations for speed traps and writing tickets is a city industry. Especially if you're from out of town. But on most of these Interstate Highways in the US virtually everyone drives as much as 10 over. I will drive 5 over in them. But 10 is pushing it.
I'm much more concerned about getting a ticket for going 30 in a 25MPH zone in some small town than I am for going 75 in a 70. You also don't want to speed in a construction or school zones. They not only don't offer the same leeway, Double penalties apply in them.
I don't understand all this talk about making roads more dangerous by intentionally driving too fast.
Personally, I usually drive about 10 km slower than the speed limit, except when there are cars behind me, and overtaking me would be too dangerous. Then I go by the fastest permitted speed in order not to slow the traffic.
Personally, I usually drive about 10 km slower than the speed limit, except when there are cars behind me, and overtaking me would be too dangerous. Then I go by the fastest permitted speed in order not to slow the traffic.
Dabop
Master Poster
Same here (except its 1kph over lol) although rarely enforced, it IS possible to get a fine for it.... (usually if you pissed a copper off it will be a 'tack on' where they would normally ignore it ...)
Cameras on the other hand have no ability to decide yeah or nay- so best not to speed at all- cause you never know where they are....
(thats one of the reasons that I prefer cameras- at least they have to have actual photographic evidence as well as a calibrated speed reader- it puts those old 'speed trap' places out of business fast lol)
Speed cameras are permanent fixtures in many school 'speed signs' these days and most roadworks around here have one at least set up at them whenever they are manned and working....
Even many backstreets these days have the 'your speed is' signs- they either display your actual speed (good for checking your speedo) or a smiley face/frowny face....
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
My very first speeding fine was for going 7kph over the limit.
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
The local Nissan Dealer here now sells BYD EVs. Last time I got my Leaf 'serviced' they had two BYD's on the hoists. I overheard a phone conversation where the mechanic was explaining the delays they were having getting spare parts for them. I think I will keep my 14 year old Leaf (which has never had anything break on it in the 7 years I've had it), even though the dealer refuses to do any work on the HV battery.
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
Same here. My Leaf's speedo reads ~5kph fast and I don't mind at all. The open road speed limit is 100kph, but many rural roads are 80kph and that's plenty fast enough for me. I just noticed today that a 30kph sign has appeared in the middle of town next to a school. Doesn't bother me because I wouldn't be going faster in that area anyway, but it's interesting because the current government campaigned on having such speed limits removed. According to them having to slow down to avoid hitting pedestrians was hurting the economy.
As others have said, in the USA each state sets the speeding penalties.
In Nevada, you get fined $20 per mph over the speed limit. More than 30 mph over the limit is a misdemeanor and could get you 6 months in jail (very unlikely).
You get 1 point per ticket for every 10 mph over the limit, 12 points in a year results in a six month suspension.
It is very unlikely you will get a speeding ticket (or any ticket for that matter) in Nevada unless you do something particularly egregious, as the police forces are severely understaffed. The State Police patrol the federal interstate highways (mostly Route 15). In the 600 square mile Las Vegas Valley, we currently have about 50 state troopers (total, not per shift). The Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Force has a total of 3,300 officers serving the 700,000 residents and 110,000 daily visitors.
I was once following a state trooper at 65 mph through the 55 mph never ending construction zone on Route 15 near the Strip. A car passed us going so fast it shook the car (had to be doing well over 100). Sure enough, the Statie immediately took chase. A few miles up the road we saw the two having a pleasant chat on the side of the road.
20 states in the USA allow speed cameras while 10 states explicitly prohibit them.
Most speed cameras are limited to construction zones and school zones, and signs are usually posted warning that the speed limits are enforced by camera.
I am not aware of any interstate freeway in the USA that has speed cameras outside of construction zones.
22 states allow red light cameras and 9 explicitly prohibit them. The intersections with cameras typically have warning signs.
Some members of the Nevada state legislature have been trying for years to allow the use of red light cameras. This year's camera bill never made it out of committee.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
In the USA if you can race the police to the state lines they can't pursue you.
Apparently.
Not true. The police can chase you across state lines. In the new state, the chase will be joined by the local police.
When you are finally caught, the local police will arrest you for any charges that occurred in their state and/or hold you for extradition to the original state.
Dabop
Master Poster
Fixed, mobile and 'average speed' cameras are VERY common in Australia- in driving down from my place to my mums place, about 4-5 hours trip- went through three 'average speed' cameras, at least a dozen fixed speed cameras, probably several dozen red light/speed/mobile phone use cameras- practically every red light intersection has the 'triple use' cameras on them these days...
I don't know if you are aware of the various subtypes of cameras in use..
Actually went through these actual cameras (theres about half a dozen spread out over several hundred km... it scans for your rego plates and sends it into the central computer- if you pass through any of the next cameras at less than the minimum time- you get a fine in the mail...
Fixed speed cameras are known and kinda pointless imho- all the speeders slow down for them and promptly speed up again- which is why its not uncommon these days to see a mobile speed camera set up a bit further down the road lol
Driven through this one hundreds of times lol
Then you have the 'multipurpose' cameras at intersections- here they are all being networked- acting not only as 'red light runner' cameras, but point to point speed cameras aka average speed cameras and many are now mobile phone use detection cameras as well.... ($577 fine, 4 demerit points...)
Mobile Phone Detection Cameras - Road Sense Australia
Learn how mobile phone detection cameras work. Process, penalties and FAQs explained in this clear guide from Road Sense Australia.
roadsense.org.au
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Rolfe
Adult human female
The discretionary tolerance here is 10% plus 2 mph. But it's up to the local police whether or not to allow that. One guy on the MGEV forum reported that his wife had been nicked for doing 21 mph in a 20 mph zone in Wales, which seems absolutely ridiculous. She protested but the cops said they didn't allow any leeway at all.
I recently had my first EV experience, when I had a Porsche Taycan as a courtesy car while my (petrol) car was in for a service. Here's what I observed:
• the instant urge is exciting, and eery (silent).
• the Taycan handles superbly, especially given its mass of ~2200kg.
• it's a big ol' thing at nearly 5m long yet the interior room and luggage space aren't brilliant, is this due to packaging of the batteries and leccy gubbins, I'm not sure.
• the displayed remaining range seemed to track well with actual use (contrary to what I've heard about this being optimistic / inaccurate); IOW, I covered about 110 miles and the remaining range dropped by about 110 miles.
• the nav system displays EV chargers, and there are loads of them - I thought that this immediately addressed any 'range anxiety'.
• the electric range of the model I had was 'only' 200 miles or so; but, thinking about it, that's 3-4 hours of driving by which time I'd be happy to take a break to recharge myself!
• I plugged it in at home 'just to see'; plugged in to a standard UK 13A outlet, was adding about 2 miles of range for every hour of charging; now, this is not a typical use case (a dedicated charger would be more typical), and it seemed hopeless, until I realised that plugging in overnight would add maybe 24 miles of range, and that would actually cover a worthwhile chunk of my daily commute.
On returning the Taycan and picking up my ICE car, it felt like stepping back in time
I wouldn't want an EV as my sports car. But as a daily driver, it would be excellent and would suit me just fine.
• the instant urge is exciting, and eery (silent).
• the Taycan handles superbly, especially given its mass of ~2200kg.
• it's a big ol' thing at nearly 5m long yet the interior room and luggage space aren't brilliant, is this due to packaging of the batteries and leccy gubbins, I'm not sure.
• the displayed remaining range seemed to track well with actual use (contrary to what I've heard about this being optimistic / inaccurate); IOW, I covered about 110 miles and the remaining range dropped by about 110 miles.
• the nav system displays EV chargers, and there are loads of them - I thought that this immediately addressed any 'range anxiety'.
• the electric range of the model I had was 'only' 200 miles or so; but, thinking about it, that's 3-4 hours of driving by which time I'd be happy to take a break to recharge myself!
• I plugged it in at home 'just to see'; plugged in to a standard UK 13A outlet, was adding about 2 miles of range for every hour of charging; now, this is not a typical use case (a dedicated charger would be more typical), and it seemed hopeless, until I realised that plugging in overnight would add maybe 24 miles of range, and that would actually cover a worthwhile chunk of my daily commute.
On returning the Taycan and picking up my ICE car, it felt like stepping back in time
I wouldn't want an EV as my sports car. But as a daily driver, it would be excellent and would suit me just fine.
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Rolfe
Adult human female
Crikey, who is giving out Taycans as a courtesy car? Even first gen ones, as that is - the second gen ones have a much longer range and are overall much better designed.
Fast Eddie B
Philosopher
The specific exception to that is “…unless in hot pursuit”.
Unknown if that’s the case across all states, but it appears to be a common exception.
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
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I recently had my first EV experience, when I had a Porsche Taycan as a courtesy car while my (petrol) car was in for a service. Here's what I observed:
• the instant urge is exciting, and eery (silent).
• the Taycan handles superbly, especially given its mass of ~2200kg.
• it's a big ol' thing at nearly 5m long yet the interior room and luggage space aren't brilliant, is this due to packaging of the batteries and leccy gubbins, I'm not sure.
• the displayed remaining range seemed to track well with actual use (contrary to what I've heard about this being optimistic / inaccurate); IOW, I covered about 110 miles and the remaining range dropped by about 110 miles.
• the nav system displays EV chargers, and there are loads of them - I thought that this immediately addressed any 'range anxiety'.
• the electric range of the model I had was 'only' 200 miles or so; but, thinking about it, that's 3-4 hours of driving by which time I'd be happy to take a break to recharge myself!
• I plugged it in at home 'just to see'; plugged in to a standard UK 13A outlet, was adding about 2 miles of range for every hour of charging; now, this is not a typical use case (a dedicated charger would be more typical), and it seemed hopeless, until I realised that plugging in overnight would add maybe 24 miles of range, and that would actually cover a worthwhile chunk of my daily commute.
On returning the Taycan and picking up my ICE car, it felt like stepping back in time
I wouldn't want an EV as my sports car. But as a daily driver, it would be excellent and would suit me just fine.
Out of Spec Motoring held a race from Seattle to Boston pitting 14 different EVs and single ICE car. 3 man teams. All the cars were limited to no more than 10mph over. It was more about range and charging speeds. The ICE car came in first. But nobody really drives like that.
The Porsche Taycan came in first among the EVs and the Tesla Model 3 came in second. The Taycan also holds the EV Canonball race record.
This is more about range and charging speeds.
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The thing is, with my EV, I almost never have to stop to "fill up." The car basically has a full tank every time I leave my driveway.
In about five years of EV ownership I have only charged away from home maybe seven or eight times.
Recently I went on a road trip in our EV. Our car charges 20 to 80% in under 20 minutes, so it took maybe 25 minutes at each stop and we usually spent that time eating, walking the dog, or running into Walmart for something while the car charged. The stops and overall time weren't noticably longer than when I drove the same trip in an older ICE car. And the trip was much more pleasant in the EV (but mostly because our newer car is overall much nicer than the previous ones rather than because it is an EV).
Gawdzilla Sama
121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy
My favorite EV is Nautilus. "Mobilis in mobili."
novaphile
Quester of Doglets
I love the way, in this fictional scenario, the driver of an open top vehicle has to consume his hamburger while driving, to make the imaginary difference in driving time, between his stink box and an electric vehicle.
In reality, he sits down with his wife, and has a meal, and a cup of coffee, and uses the facilities before driving on.
In reality, he sits down with his wife, and has a meal, and a cup of coffee, and uses the facilities before driving on.
xterra
So far, so good...
Dabop
Master Poster
On the contrary- the Australian public DEMANDS greater safety- unlike the US viewpoint of 'dog eat dog, and man eat man'- most countries have a much different attitude to 'public safety'- it wasnt 'da ebil gubbermint taking away our guns' and 'putting in orwellian cameras'- these are things the general public demanded happen- and any politicians who refused to listen (like some who opposed the original gun 'ban' here and things like reduced speed limits in towns, and speed cameras and the like- WILL lose their jobs and not be re-elected....
The fact is that if you don't speed- then you have nothing to worry about- and as speed is the major contributing factor in many fatal crashes- and the public wants LESS deaths in general- well most people have no real issues with them....
The only ones that seem to have major problems with them are the ones that seem to have ball bearings in their ankles lol
Same with crashes in general- red light runners cause a lot of added expenses and increased injuries and fatalities- so most have no issues with them at all- it really is very simple to not get a fine- DONT DRIVE THROUGH RED LIGHTS!!!!!
Those too impatient to bother waiting for greens/ too inattentive because they are texting/instagramming/whatever- well- they get to learn that they are criminals breaking the law- and as such, pay the price....
Better they pay $$$ than me getting clobbered and having the risk of injury or death- screw them lol
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
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Nah. They just need more revenues.
Dabop
Master Poster
As multiple people have said- there really isnt much difference at all lol...
The older slower charging EVs (like the Atto) 'do' take about 40 mins to get from 20% to 100%- which is why you dont do THAT on long trips- do the 20%-80% (which in the Atto gives you about 350km per 'tank' and each recharging stop (at the very same 'travel centers' the ICErs use lol) takes about 20 mins per charge, needed every 3 1/2 hours or so...
The newer ones that can handle a lot more current coming in (the Atto is under 90kw on DC charging, many newer ones are double or triple that)- the Dolphin for example can do the same charge in 10-12 minutes!!!!
So it could do the 20-80 cycle with a ten minute break every 3 1/2-4 hours....
And that is a 'cheap Chinese brand' lol
Dabop
Master Poster
BS....
Hell if people didnt break the law- then they would have ZERO revenue....
(red light runners in particular- them and drink drivers- I have lost several mates over the years to both (as well as a near miss myself quite recently with a bloody texter running a red light- literally a second faster coming through my green, and she would have rammed my drivers door!!!!)
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
Unless this "discretionary tolerance" can be demonstrated to be documented in law, I wouldn't trust it to exist. People always seem to assume that they can go a certain amount above the speed limit, but show me the legal evidence.
Not in the least.
Rolfe
Adult human female
There is a difference in my car, because it only has a practical range on the motorway of about 150 miles (that's doing 70-75 mph). Less in winter, maybe just 120 miles. So I do stop more often than I would in a petrol car. Even so, though, I've usually been driving for a couple of hours before I stop. Then, the car's maximum charge rate is only about 80 kw, again less in winter. (I only saw 69 kw this evening.) So I do have to stop for 40-45 minutes each time. More if I want to shove the charge up to 85% or 90%, which can be worth it in terms of extending the next leg.
I say to people, if you do a lot of long trips, and especially if time is important to you, don't get my car. Get the longer-range, faster-charging model. Hell, it only cost £2,500 extra at the time I bought mine, I just wasn't especially interested. Nowadays they can be had for much less, as MG are offloading stock in preparation for the launch of a new model. I can see that even in that car, with maybe 50 miles extra range and a charging rate of up to 140 kw, my stops would be fewer and shorter and probably as few and as short as anyone could reasonably want.
But if you're a real freak about touring as far in a day as possible, there are Teslas and Mercs and the new Taycan (that charges blisteringly fast) all there for the taking. In the real world they're probably faster than most ICE cars.
The "requirements" people are coming up with to justify dismissing EVs these days are getting sillier and sillier. Driving 600 miles without stopping. Being able to refuel, go to the toilet and buy horrible fast food to eat with one hand while driving on, all to be accomplished in 15 minutes. It's absolutely mental. All for a theoretical saving of maybe half an hour in a full day's driving, which wouldn't even happen in the real world.
Rolfe
Adult human female
It's good to read all the words in a post, you know.
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
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"If" is a condition contrary to fact.
People make mistakes. Honest ones at that. Creating revenue off of small human errors is of questionable value. You are making the police the enemy of the ordinary citizen. Especially anyone living paycheck to paycheck.
In my "fictional scenario", we will be driving the Nautilus, leaving Las Vegas around 0600. The only time my wife and I will stop for a sit down meal on the trip will be at exit 66 on Interstate 40, just east of Kingman, for Dunkin Donuts. While only 125 miles from home, it somehow gets the trip off to a good start.
From there we imagine heading south to Interstate 10 and driving to Pensacola to visit the National Naval Aviation Museum. Next is the Don Garlits Museum of Drag Racing in Ocala Florida (heaven for a piston head like me). Then Daytona for the races. We have been going to the Daytona 500 for more than a decade.
We will typically drive each day until 6:00 PM, after traveling over 800 miles.
On the fictional return trip we will divert to Myrtle Beach, SC, to visit a friend for a couple of days. We will then then drive home, about 2400 miles, in three days.
Several years ago I considered an EV but came to the conclusion that the US EV infrastructure was not adequate for the type of driving my wife and I prefer.
I have spent some time reconsidering an EV and, again, I just can't justify it.
In the summer of 2027, we are considering driving to Alaska. I am not convinced an EV could make the trip to Alaska in a safe and reasonable manner.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
I did. If the law does not state explicitly that the police can tolerate a certain amount over the limit at their discretion, then you can't assume that they will.
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