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Merged Peace President invades Venezuela,/U.S. Forces Capture Maduro

Chris_Halkides said:
Reuters reported, "Venezuela is unlikely to see any meaningful boost to crude output for years even if U.S. oil majors do invest the billions of dollars in the country that President Donald Trump promised just hours following Nicolás Maduro's capture by U.S. forces. The South American country may have the world's largest estimated oil reserves, but output has plummeted over the past decades amid mismanagement and a lack of investment from foreign firms after Venezuela nationalized oil operations in the 2000s that included the assets of Exxon Mobil (XOM.N), and ConocoPhillips (COP.N),..."
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What does Reuters know? Fake news! They just need to turn the tap on like Trump ordered someone to do in California with the water (obviously he couldn't turn the tap on himself with his weak and easily bruised little hands).
 
Andy_Ross said:
John James
@JohnJamesMI
Me and my buddies fought in a 20-year war because Bush and Obama couldn’t get done in four terms what Trump just got done in four hours.

I voted for this!

https://twitter.com/x/status/2007475411890880817
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Not sure what is meant by that. The Taliban, Hussein, and Gaddafi were all deposed pretty quickly in the 20-year war following 9/11 (and by the way, Trump was president during the tail-end of that time), but the wars dragged on because they descended into sectarian conflict and nobody had the legitimacy to be recognized by the majority of the population in each country. It is foolish to imagine that this somehow must be different from that.
 
angrysoba said:
Not sure what is meant by that. The Taliban, Hussein, and Gaddafi were all deposed pretty quickly in the 20-year war following 9/11 (and by the way, Trump was president during the tail-end of that time), but the wars dragged on because they descended into sectarian conflict and nobody had the legitimacy to be recognized by the majority of the population in each country. It is foolish to imagine that this somehow must be different from that.
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Venezuela used to be a functional country before Chavez.

Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya never were.
 
Darat said:
But this one loves Trump!
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By July, the family and their lawyers had written an 18-page draft outlining some of the ways they might appeal to Trump’s pardon czar, Alice Marie Johnson. From Trump, they’d learned the language of modern political grievance: “Just like President Trump, President Hernández is a victim of lawfare, waged by the Biden administration.” If pardoned, Hernández would return to Honduras and dedicate himself to building a political movement in Latin America aligned with Trump’s foreign policy ambitions. The memo noted that Hondurans would go to the polls on Nov. 30 to elect a new president, and it suggested a timely pardon could energize conservatives in a region threatened by “radical left” regimes, including China and Venezuela. (Johnson didn’t respond to a request for comment.)

But it wasn’t only Trump who could benefit from a pardon. Castro, Hernández’s successor, repealed the legal framework that had established the country’s semi-autonomous economic development zones, including Próspera. That led the Honduran supreme court to declare those zones unconstitutional, triggering still-unresolved lawsuits from their investors. (Próspera continues to operate.) The memo asserted that Castro’s administration “has effectively stolen billions” from the financial backers of Próspera. The memo named Peter Thiel (“a longtime collaborator of Vice President J.D. Vance”) and Marc Andreessen (“who also donated millions to ensure that Trump’s policy goals could be achieved”).

A timely pardon—especially one delivered before the election—might remedy all that. It could also give Trump one more regional ally against the “narco-dicatorship” in Venezuela, where the Trump administration in September would begin launching military strikes against boats suspected of carrying drugs.

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Andy_Ross said:
Exactly what I would do.
Leave the Invading Americans absolutely nothing.
Start a guerilla war and kill as many Americans as possible.
They will give up and go away in humiliation like they did in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.

An occupation will not survive the flow of body bags.
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An occupation run by a sane person wouldn't. But would this strategy work against, oh, I don't know, say...a malignant narcissist who is also insane? I suggest it may not, that he may react to such a strategy by doubling down on his mistakes, then tripling-down.
 
Ziggurat said:
Ok, chicken little.
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if i went back into your post history and looked back from nov 2020 to jan 6 and a few months beyond i’m certain i’d find similarly foolish chicken little paranoia style taunts and rethinking assessments.

so you don’t really have the credibility for me to take these kinds of taunts as more than you trying to save face after saying something stupid.
 
dirtywick said:
if i went back into your post history and looked back from nov 2020 to jan 6 and a few months beyond i’m certain i’d find similarly foolish chicken little paranoia style taunts and rethinking assessments.
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Go for it.

Jan 6 was a riot. It was not an insurrection. Which is why basically no one was armed, and the only people killed were protesters.
dirtywick said:
so you don’t really have the credibility for me to take these kinds of taunts as more than you trying to save face after saying something stupid.
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My credibility has nothing to do with the validity of what I said. That stands on its own. You have basically admitted that being wrong will not make you rethink anything.
 
Ziggurat said:
Venezuela used to be a functional country before Chavez.

Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya never were.
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Never? That depends on what you think a functional country is, of course; they were not Western democracies, certainly, but non-functional? Both Libya and Iraq have had quite stable periods of growth and development during the 20th century (Iraq had high literacy, strong social services and healthcare, and a thriving middle-class until the war with Iran, and Libya had good education and healthcare systems until Gaddaffi). Afghanistan was well on its way, from the 1930s and onward, to being a very modern, democratic country, women even had extensive rights, including the right to education, employment and voting, until there was a military coup in 1973, and then the Soviet Union intervened in 1979, and ◊◊◊◊◊◊ things up even further.

Not Western democracies, but definitely functional countries. I am not defending the state they are in now, but you dismiss them too carelessly, I think.
 
Ziggurat said:
Go for it.

Jan 6 was a riot. It was not an insurrection. Which is why basically no one was armed, and the only people killed were protesters.
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you should probably check out jack smiths deposition. the entire plot is covered in detail


My credibility has nothing to do with the validity of what I said. That stands on its own. You have basically admitted that being wrong will not make you rethink anything.
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if you had credibility maybe somebody would buy your dishonest framing.

i think coming into a thread discussing the president illegally attacking venezuela and saying it’s paranoid delusion to think he may trying and steal away an election the same week the special prosecutor charged with investigating the last time he tried to steal away an election saying he was guilty of doing so but he killed the investigation is monumentally stupid. and i have nothing more to say on the matter.
 
Ziggurat said:
And in just over three years, Trump won't be either.

But just as Obama was able to use the military without Congressional approval, so too will Trump be able to. Because it is not actually any different. Presidents get to do that. Maybe they shouldn't, but they do. This wasn't the first time, it won't be the last. Get used to it.
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We've come so far from you praising Trump as anti-war. I remember when it was number one on your list of reasons to vote for him.
Ziggurat said:
The best case for Trump is probably what he DIDN'T do.

He didn't get us, or anyone else, into war.
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If there's one consistent principle of MAGA, it's having no principles.
 
I wonder at what point we should cut the US out of NATO?

It's foreign policies are now indistinguishable from those of Putin's Russia and Xi's China (though China hasn't invaded neighbors in the past 40 years or so) and that it's clear that Trump will always support Putin anyway, would it not be better to aim some nukes at the US just in case it does decide to go to war with Canada or invade Greenland?
Clearly Trump only respects terror, not law.
 
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Ziggurat said:
Go for it.
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Well, yes. That link shows a statistical analysis of voting results which violate Benford's Law. Given that it is only Biden's votes which show this strong deviation, not Trump's or other candidates, that is itself evidence of fraud.

Ziggurat said:
Jan 6 was a riot. It was not an insurrection. Which is why basically no one was armed, and the only people killed were protesters.
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I guess denying reality is easier than admitting you're wrong.
 
dirtywick said:
abcnews.go.com

Trump says Venezuelan opposition leader doesn't have the 'respect' to govern after Maduro ousted

Venezuelans are reacting to the U.S. operation early Saturday that led to the capture of Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro and his wife.
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com

Trump isn’t too keen on the opposition leader either
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The administration could not care less about the people of Venezuela.

Better explanation for their action may be about shoring up support for the Republicans in this year´s midterm elections.
 
JD Vance
@JDVance
You see a lot claims that Venezuela has nothing to do with drugs because most of the fentanyl comes from elsewhere. I want to address this:

First off, fentanyl isn't the only drug in the world and there is still fentanyl coming from Venezuela (or at least there was).

Second, cocaine, which is the main drug trafficked out of Venezuela, is a profit center for all of the Latin America cartels. If you cut out the money from cocaine (or even reduce it) you substantially weaken the cartels overall. Also, cocaine is bad too!

Third, yes, a lot of fentanyl is coming out of Mexico. That continues to be a focus of our policy in Mexico and is a reason why President Trump shut the border on day one.

Fourth, I see a lot of criticism about oil. About 20 years ago, Venezuela expropriated American oil property and until recently used that stolen property to get rich and fund their narcoterrorist activities. I understand the anxiety over the use of military force, but are we just supposed to allow a communist to steal our stuff in our hemisphere and do nothing? Great powers don't act like that.

The United States, thanks to President Trump's leadership, is a great power again. Everyone should take note
 
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