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Avoiding Win 11 and staying with 10

My Acer win8.1 laptop which cannot support win 10 has a brief notification that it needs to be updated to 10 for any updates.

It enters YT and chrome with zero hiccups at all. It was allowed to exist without forced shutdown. At least until hardware becomes totally obsolete. It has Edge installed but I don't use it out of habit.
 
plague311 said:
There's an update troubleshooting tool built-in to windows now. It doesn't always work, or do much at all, but sometimes it'll clear that up for you. Usually the service is stalling out or something like that, and the troubleshooter will square it away.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Almost forgot as my Win 11 desktop kept hanging while left running then on restart would try to update, "something went wrong" and it would back out the update and restart.
FWIW - some people report this happening with Malwarebytes installed.
Some errors in EventViewer (as always) said the driver for my Dell D3100 dock crashed at same time.
DIMS just hung.
Rebooted after troubleshooter and so far seems okay.
 
The days are passing, and I still haven't got the option to enroll in Microsoft ESU. I am beginning to get nervous.

My expectation is that all kinds of automated Day 0 attacks will break loose when it is known that Microsoft is not going to send a correction. I am not concerned with attacks through emails, web links or files, but with attacks using standard ports that are open for Microsoft services. Hopefully, my router firewall, and antivirus system is enough to block it.
 
I got my enrollment link today. In my opinion, Microsoft is cutting it a bit close.

But now I am enrolled, and to my surprise, it cost me nothing for the first year.
 
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Andy_Ross said:
Microsoft is 'removing known mechanisms for creating a local account' from Windows 11 setup - get ready to use a Microsoft account
Click to expand...

The important part is they're keeping domain join for the Pro version. I don't ever use any version other than that anyway, but Microsoft will certainly find a way in your pockets if they can.

Before someone else gets to it, I don't know if people are aware but if you use Linux you don't have to create a Microsoft account. Linux is the best, uncontested champion of the world when it comes to OS's. There is not, nor will there ever be, an OS that can possibly be better, or even on the same plane, as Linux.

There...I saved someone some time.
 
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This is very annoying.

Is Linux my only altrentive?

How much of a pain in the neck is it to wean myself of windows?
 
3point14 said:
This is very annoying.

Is Linux my only altrentive?

How much of a pain in the neck is it to wean myself of windows?
Click to expand...

Depends on what you do with your computer! It can be pretty simple or it can be a pain in the ass. You'd have to format your system and install Linux, after selecting a flavor of Linux. It's not a simple task for the average user but it can be done.

What issues are you having currently? I do a lot of windows support so I can probably help walk you through a bit.
 
plague311 said:
Depends on what you do with your computer! It can be pretty simple or it can be a pain in the ass. You'd have to format your system and install Linux, after selecting a flavor of Linux. It's not a simple task for the average user but it can be done.

What issues are you having currently? I do a lot of windows support so I can probably help walk you through a bit.
Click to expand...

No specific issues at all

I really only use the machine for watching things, reading things and playing games. Oh, and buying stuff. REally I'm just concerned with it still working and not broadcasting my credit card details to the world.
 
3point14 said:
This is very annoying.

Is Linux my only altrentive?

How much of a pain in the neck is it to wean myself of windows?
Click to expand...
About my only complaints about Linux are that my copy boots slowly, and I had bad luck trying to get some photo programs to run in it using Wine. So I've stuck with Windows mostly, but if your software needs are met by Linux, I don't see much downside to it. If you're worried about security, you can even put the OS on a DVD and boot from that, guaranteeing that you'll have an uncorrupted OS even if all your other files get clobbered.
 
3point14 said:
This is very annoying.

Is Linux my only altrentive?

How much of a pain in the neck is it to wean myself of windows?
Click to expand...
The problem for me is the mass of programs (called "apps" these days) that I have bought for a fortune, and that I don't want to buy again, if they exist for Linux. And then of course, there is the learning curve.
 
Hmm...

You chums have prompted me to turn on my only Windows device, to see if M$ have managed to brick it while it was turned off.

I'll be interested to see what 'Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt' messages I get from it.

:)
 
steenkh said:
The problem for me is the mass of programs (called "apps" these days) that I have bought for a fortune, and that I don't want to buy again, if they exist for Linux. And then of course, there is the learning curve.
Click to expand...

If you have an existing machine with an OS or hardware which can no longer be updated and is a risk to expose to the internet, then the simplest solution if you have the time, space and budget is to get a new(er) machine for testing purposes which you can use to find other combinations of OS and software to match your current needs, where possible.
 
I saw that my Windows 11 had an update pending and realized I hadn't done a full backup since I got this new laptop (several months.) I wanted to do one before doing an Update.
The software I'd been using for years (EaseToDo) kept failing for "use of system resources" or some such. Checked into the provided Windows Backup but that only does files and requires a login. WTF?
I thought the resources might be because of all the extra Windows files needed for the update so I cringed and did it anyway before a backup. Then went back to ETD to try to get one and it kept blackscreening out. ◊◊◊◊!!!
After nearly an hour looking at options I finally went to "just the files" backup on ETD). That seems to be working. I was also able to make a Recovery drive on it so between the two I may be OK.
If I could go back to Windows 10, I would. I've seen no advantage to being on 11.
 
alfaniner said:
If I could go back to Windows 10, I would. I've seen no advantage to being on 11.
Click to expand...

If it helps, it's a significantly more secure than the previous versions. Also, not to make a pass, but this sounds like more of a problem with the backup software rather than Windows. The reason you have to sign in for a windows backup is because it backs it up to OneDrive, I believe. I'm a bit curious what resources the backup software is complaining about. Windows 10 and Windows 11 aren't even significantly different. Throughout our entire city that I do support for we haven't had a single program that is compatible with 10 but not 11.

You could try running it in compatibility mode. That might help.
 
I backed out the Updates put in today. It seems I've never been able to copy large Folders to another device without it kacking. (and it's not because of lack of space -- it stops in the middle somewhere.)
I decry the loss of System Restore points. Not sure when they went away but I don't think it was that long ago.
I'm going to leave the system on as I usually do and see if it BSODs again. It does get hot even though I have an extra external fan on it. Next step would be to take off the bottom (again) and see if the fan is somehow clogged, but it wasn't that long ago that I checked it.
 
Well, I seem to have got through the final updates for Win 10.

:)

M$ tried (again) to force me to create an account, and copy my data onto a computer that they control...

Not. Going. To. Happen.

:)
 
My shutdown problem may be related to heat issues. I noticed most of the day that my keyboard was really hot, even with the extra fan on, and when I wasn't doing anything or even had any windows open. I finally gave up and shut it down for a few hours. Came back on and it's been a couple hours and the keyboard is nowhere near as hot as it was, more like normal.
I wonder if there was some high-level background Windows (11) process that was causing the heat spike? I know that at least once a month everything just stops and I think that's when it's trying to download the monthly updates.
Perhaps I can make a few tweaks yet. But I'll be looking at laptop sales come Christmastime...
 
plague311 said:
The important part is they're keeping domain join for the Pro version. I don't ever use any version other than that anyway, but Microsoft will certainly find a way in your pockets if they can.

Before someone else gets to it, I don't know if people are aware but if you use Linux you don't have to create a Microsoft account. Linux is the best, uncontested champion of the world when it comes to OS's. There is not, nor will there ever be, an OS that can possibly be better, or even on the same plane, as Linux.

There...I saved someone some time.
Click to expand...
A friend was telling me much the same thing, but my concern is that Linux doesn't offer the ongoing security updates of Windows or Apple.
 
alfaniner said:
I saw that my Windows 11 had an update pending and realized I hadn't done a full backup since I got this new laptop (several months.) I wanted to do one before doing an Update.
The software I'd been using for years (EaseToDo) kept failing for "use of system resources" or some such. Checked into the provided Windows Backup but that only does files and requires a login. WTF?
I thought the resources might be because of all the extra Windows files needed for the update so I cringed and did it anyway before a backup. Then went back to ETD to try to get one and it kept blackscreening out. ◊◊◊◊!!!
After nearly an hour looking at options I finally went to "just the files" backup on ETD). That seems to be working. I was also able to make a Recovery drive on it so between the two I may be OK.
If I could go back to Windows 10, I would. I've seen no advantage to being on 11.
Click to expand...
From various online tech-heads I follow online- doing a backup before doing ANYTHING with win11 is a VERY good idea- apparently it has a habit of deciding 'anything' it doesn't approve on that is on your HDD will be erased...- including dual boot partitions, and any files with data formats it doesn't approve of....

When windows says my computer- it literally means 'is now MY computer- not yours buddy...'

From the stuff I'm hearing- I wouldn't touch it with someone else's ten foot pole....
(especially the 'data leakage' stuff- anything on your HDD can end up in microsofts servers for 'training AI' but it has no particular filtering as to what it grabs- I can see some businesses being less than pleased if they find this out....
 
alfaniner said:
My shutdown problem may be related to heat issues. I noticed most of the day that my keyboard was really hot, even with the extra fan on, and when I wasn't doing anything or even had any windows open. I finally gave up and shut it down for a few hours. Came back on and it's been a couple hours and the keyboard is nowhere near as hot as it was, more like normal.
I wonder if there was some high-level background Windows (11) process that was causing the heat spike? I know that at least once a month everything just stops and I think that's when it's trying to download the monthly updates.
Perhaps I can make a few tweaks yet. But I'll be looking at laptop sales come Christmastime...
Click to expand...
This cools my laptop CPU by about 20°
TECKNET Cooling Pad 12"-17"... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0164R64Y8

I monitor the heat using the Open Hardware Monitor

Open Hardware Monitor - Core temp, fan speed and voltages in a free software gadget Warning: Undefined variable $cpage in /home/httpd/vhosts/openhardwaremonitor.org/httpdocs/wordpress/wp-content/themes/openhardwaremonitor/header.php on line 18

openhardwaremonitor.org openhardwaremonitor.org
 
Dabop said:
From various online tech-heads I follow online- doing a backup before doing ANYTHING with win11 is a VERY good idea- apparently it has a habit of deciding 'anything' it doesn't approve on that is on your HDD will be erased...- including dual boot partitions, and any files with data formats it doesn't approve of....

When windows says my computer- it literally means 'is now MY computer- not yours buddy...'

From the stuff I'm hearing- I wouldn't touch it with someone else's ten foot pole....
(especially the 'data leakage' stuff- anything on your HDD can end up in microsofts servers for 'training AI' but it has no particular filtering as to what it grabs- I can see some businesses being less than pleased if they find this out....
Click to expand...
I've been running the equivalent of insider builds since MS started doing them for over a decade or so, only once have I had anything like a disaster. I have never had a single file deleted or otherwise made unusable. I've had dual boot with various combinations and so on.

The problem is the sheer number of Windows installs and the sheer number of 3rd party apps, drivers, hardware etc and so on which means there will always be some combination of hardware and software that screws someone's build up. Due to its success there isn't any feasible way for MS to test every possible variation of installation and upgrade. And don't forget I'm someone fine with the likes of Facebook being forced to spend most of their "profit" in moderating every social media message on their platforms, so it isn't a matter of it being unfeasible in terms of costs; it's simply that even in very strictly controlled corporate setups there are still variations in hardware and software setups add in all the ad-hoc installations and the only true testbed would be to duplicate every single installation in the world.

Now has MS and does MS make "unforced" errors? Of course it does. And to say it's never been a particularly "ethical" company on any level is... does it even need stating? I do think given its dominance it should be held to standards over companies aren't. Windows 10 was released 10 years ago but MS only stopped selling it directly in January 2023. I think it would be entirely proper to force it to provide security updates for 10 years past that. Yep that is expensive but the trillion dollar company could easily afford that. In the EU manufacturers of the likes of even washing machines have to provide spare parts for 10 years after purchase so it wouldn't even be being treated like an exceptional case in the EU.
 
alfaniner said:
I backed out the Updates put in today. It seems I've never been able to copy large Folders to another device without it kacking.(and it's not because of lack of space -- it stops in the middle somewhere.)
Click to expand...
Robocopy is your go-to command here. It's fast, robust, and on a restart can pick up where it left off.

rsync is also a good option, but you'll have to track down a copy for Windows and install it.
 
Darat said:
The problem is the sheer number of Windows installs and the sheer number of 3rd party apps, drivers, hardware etc and so on which means there will always be some combination of hardware and software that screws someone's build up.
Click to expand...
I think a lot is down to system spec and driver support as well.
Back in the day I installed Vista and never had any problems with it*. Part of that, I think, was because I waited till SP1 but the rest was having a well specced PC with components from brands I trusted. A lot of the pre-builts were barely able to keep up with the minimum requirements.

*Yes, I know there were some baseline issues with Vista but they never overlapped with my usage.
 
Last edited:
I had another blackout and once I got it back up decided to do a full Shutdown/Restart again. Well, in the meantime it had re-downloaded the updates I'd backed out, and the only options for Shutdown were "Update and Shut down" and "Update and Restart".
I am running Core Temp which I think is one cause, where it turns off without the error (I have now set it to Sleep instead of Hibernate, I'll see if that tracks better.)
I also think a problem is with the newer Western Digital external hard drive. Copying to it may be using more resources than the old one did. I'll try the Robocopy.
 
Darat said:
I've been running the equivalent of insider builds since MS started doing them for over a decade or so, only once have I had anything like a disaster. I have never had a single file deleted or otherwise made unusable. I've had dual boot with various combinations and so on.

The problem is the sheer number of Windows installs and the sheer number of 3rd party apps, drivers, hardware etc and so on which means there will always be some combination of hardware and software that screws someone's build up. Due to its success there isn't any feasible way for MS to test every possible variation of installation and upgrade. And don't forget I'm someone fine with the likes of Facebook being forced to spend most of their "profit" in moderating every social media message on their platforms, so it isn't a matter of it being unfeasible in terms of costs; it's simply that even in very strictly controlled corporate setups there are still variations in hardware and software setups add in all the ad-hoc installations and the only true testbed would be to duplicate every single installation in the world.

Now has MS and does MS make "unforced" errors? Of course it does. And to say it's never been a particularly "ethical" company on any level is... does it even need stating? I do think given its dominance it should be held to standards over companies aren't. Windows 10 was released 10 years ago but MS only stopped selling it directly in January 2023. I think it would be entirely proper to force it to provide security updates for 10 years past that. Yep that is expensive but the trillion dollar company could easily afford that. In the EU manufacturers of the likes of even washing machines have to provide spare parts for 10 years after purchase so it wouldn't even be being treated like an exceptional case in the EU.
Click to expand...
This is win 11 doing it (I doubt you have been running W11 for over a decade lol)- and nearly every tech channel I am a subscriber to is saying the same things.... Grumpy Sysadmin, Rob Braxman, Hackbit- its actively deleting any dualboot systems partitions, leaking users data to its servers and deleting users files....
 
commandlinegamer said:
If you have an existing machine with an OS or hardware which can no longer be updated and is a risk to expose to the internet, then the simplest solution if you have the time, space and budget is to get a new(er) machine for testing purposes which you can use to find other combinations of OS and software to match your current needs, where possible.
Click to expand...
I for one appreciate the irony of, after a lifetime of paying a premium for the convenience of having apps that just work, being told to embrace a life of inconvenience as a user experience QA tester on unfamiliar operating systems.
 
Orphia Nay said:
A friend was telling me much the same thing, but my concern is that Linux doesn't offer the ongoing security updates of Windows or Apple.
Click to expand...

Erm what?

Who told you that lie, and why did you believe them?

I get security updates for my linux system all the time.

(Generally around weekly, but for urgent updates, any time.)
 
novaphile said:
Erm what?

Who told you that lie, and why did you believe them?

I get security updates for my linux system all the time.

(Generally around weekly, but for urgent updates, any time.)
Click to expand...
Same here- and mine is 'technically' out of date (Bionic Beaver- 18.04.6 LTS- it was released back in 2018 and still receives regular updates lol)
 
theprestige said:
I for one appreciate the irony of, after a lifetime of paying a premium for the convenience of having apps that just work, being told to embrace a life of inconvenience as a user experience QA tester on unfamiliar operating systems.
Click to expand...
Yes, it IS rather nasty of microsoft to do exactly that isn't it...

(mind you- microsoft has been using its users as 'guinea pig' beta testers for decades- so it shouldn't surprise anyone that they did it again...)
 
Dabop said:
Yes, it IS rather nasty of microsoft to do exactly that isn't it...
Click to expand...
That's never been my experience.

Dabop said:
(mind you- microsoft has been using its users as 'guinea pig' beta testers for decades- so it shouldn't surprise anyone that they did it again...)
Click to expand...
I've been a Windows user for decades, and I've never had that problem.
 
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