Avoiding Win 11 and staying with 10

[alfaniner]

I saw that my Windows 11 had an update pending and realized I hadn't done a full backup since I got this new laptop (several months.) I wanted to do one before doing an Update.
The software I'd been using for years (EaseToDo) kept failing for "use of system resources" or some such. Checked into the provided Windows Backup but that only does files and requires a login. WTF?
I thought the resources might be because of all the extra Windows files needed for the update so I cringed and did it anyway before a backup. Then went back to ETD to try to get one and it kept blackscreening out. ◊◊◊◊!!!
After nearly an hour looking at options I finally went to "just the files" backup on ETD). That seems to be working. I was also able to make a Recovery drive on it so between the two I may be OK.
If I could go back to Windows 10, I would. I've seen no advantage to being on 11.

 

[plague311]

If I could go back to Windows 10, I would. I've seen no advantage to being on 11.

If it helps, it's a significantly more secure than the previous versions. Also, not to make a pass, but this sounds like more of a problem with the backup software rather than Windows. The reason you have to sign in for a windows backup is because it backs it up to OneDrive, I believe. I'm a bit curious what resources the backup software is complaining about. Windows 10 and Windows 11 aren't even significantly different. Throughout our entire city that I do support for we haven't had a single program that is compatible with 10 but not 11.

You could try running it in compatibility mode. That might help.

 

[alfaniner]

I backed out the Updates put in today. It seems I've never been able to copy large Folders to another device without it kacking. (and it's not because of lack of space -- it stops in the middle somewhere.)
I decry the loss of System Restore points. Not sure when they went away but I don't think it was that long ago.
I'm going to leave the system on as I usually do and see if it BSODs again. It does get hot even though I have an extra external fan on it. Next step would be to take off the bottom (again) and see if the fan is somehow clogged, but it wasn't that long ago that I checked it.

 

[novaphile]

Well, I seem to have got through the final updates for Win 10.



M$ tried (again) to force me to create an account, and copy my data onto a computer that they control...

Not. Going. To. Happen.

 

[alfaniner]

My shutdown problem may be related to heat issues. I noticed most of the day that my keyboard was really hot, even with the extra fan on, and when I wasn't doing anything or even had any windows open. I finally gave up and shut it down for a few hours. Came back on and it's been a couple hours and the keyboard is nowhere near as hot as it was, more like normal.
I wonder if there was some high-level background Windows (11) process that was causing the heat spike? I know that at least once a month everything just stops and I think that's when it's trying to download the monthly updates.
Perhaps I can make a few tweaks yet. But I'll be looking at laptop sales come Christmastime...

 

[Orphia Nay]

The important part is they're keeping domain join for the Pro version. I don't ever use any version other than that anyway, but Microsoft will certainly find a way in your pockets if they can.

Before someone else gets to it, I don't know if people are aware but if you use Linux you don't have to create a Microsoft account. Linux is the best, uncontested champion of the world when it comes to OS's. There is not, nor will there ever be, an OS that can possibly be better, or even on the same plane, as Linux.

There...I saved someone some time.

A friend was telling me much the same thing, but my concern is that Linux doesn't offer the ongoing security updates of Windows or Apple.

 

[Dabop]

I saw that my Windows 11 had an update pending and realized I hadn't done a full backup since I got this new laptop (several months.) I wanted to do one before doing an Update.
The software I'd been using for years (EaseToDo) kept failing for "use of system resources" or some such. Checked into the provided Windows Backup but that only does files and requires a login. WTF?
I thought the resources might be because of all the extra Windows files needed for the update so I cringed and did it anyway before a backup. Then went back to ETD to try to get one and it kept blackscreening out. ◊◊◊◊!!!
After nearly an hour looking at options I finally went to "just the files" backup on ETD). That seems to be working. I was also able to make a Recovery drive on it so between the two I may be OK.
If I could go back to Windows 10, I would. I've seen no advantage to being on 11.

From various online tech-heads I follow online- doing a backup before doing ANYTHING with win11 is a VERY good idea- apparently it has a habit of deciding 'anything' it doesn't approve on that is on your HDD will be erased...- including dual boot partitions, and any files with data formats it doesn't approve of....

When windows says my computer- it literally means 'is now MY computer- not yours buddy...'

From the stuff I'm hearing- I wouldn't touch it with someone else's ten foot pole....
(especially the 'data leakage' stuff- anything on your HDD can end up in microsofts servers for 'training AI' but it has no particular filtering as to what it grabs- I can see some businesses being less than pleased if they find this out....

 

[Wudang]

My shutdown problem may be related to heat issues. I noticed most of the day that my keyboard was really hot, even with the extra fan on, and when I wasn't doing anything or even had any windows open. I finally gave up and shut it down for a few hours. Came back on and it's been a couple hours and the keyboard is nowhere near as hot as it was, more like normal.
I wonder if there was some high-level background Windows (11) process that was causing the heat spike? I know that at least once a month everything just stops and I think that's when it's trying to download the monthly updates.
Perhaps I can make a few tweaks yet. But I'll be looking at laptop sales come Christmastime...

This cools my laptop CPU by about 20°
TECKNET Cooling Pad 12"-17"... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0164R64Y8

I monitor the heat using the Open Hardware Monitor

Open Hardware Monitor - Core temp, fan speed and voltages in a free software gadget Warning: Undefined variable $cpage in /home/httpd/vhosts/openhardwaremonitor.org/httpdocs/wordpress/wp-content/themes/openhardwaremonitor/header.php on line 18

openhardwaremonitor.org

 

[Darat]

From various online tech-heads I follow online- doing a backup before doing ANYTHING with win11 is a VERY good idea- apparently it has a habit of deciding 'anything' it doesn't approve on that is on your HDD will be erased...- including dual boot partitions, and any files with data formats it doesn't approve of....

When windows says my computer- it literally means 'is now MY computer- not yours buddy...'

From the stuff I'm hearing- I wouldn't touch it with someone else's ten foot pole....
(especially the 'data leakage' stuff- anything on your HDD can end up in microsofts servers for 'training AI' but it has no particular filtering as to what it grabs- I can see some businesses being less than pleased if they find this out....

I've been running the equivalent of insider builds since MS started doing them for over a decade or so, only once have I had anything like a disaster. I have never had a single file deleted or otherwise made unusable. I've had dual boot with various combinations and so on.

The problem is the sheer number of Windows installs and the sheer number of 3rd party apps, drivers, hardware etc and so on which means there will always be some combination of hardware and software that screws someone's build up. Due to its success there isn't any feasible way for MS to test every possible variation of installation and upgrade. And don't forget I'm someone fine with the likes of Facebook being forced to spend most of their "profit" in moderating every social media message on their platforms, so it isn't a matter of it being unfeasible in terms of costs; it's simply that even in very strictly controlled corporate setups there are still variations in hardware and software setups add in all the ad-hoc installations and the only true testbed would be to duplicate every single installation in the world.

Now has MS and does MS make "unforced" errors? Of course it does. And to say it's never been a particularly "ethical" company on any level is... does it even need stating? I do think given its dominance it should be held to standards over companies aren't. Windows 10 was released 10 years ago but MS only stopped selling it directly in January 2023. I think it would be entirely proper to force it to provide security updates for 10 years past that. Yep that is expensive but the trillion dollar company could easily afford that. In the EU manufacturers of the likes of even washing machines have to provide spare parts for 10 years after purchase so it wouldn't even be being treated like an exceptional case in the EU.

 

[Blue Mountain]

I backed out the Updates put in today. It seems I've never been able to copy large Folders to another device without it kacking.(and it's not because of lack of space -- it stops in the middle somewhere.)

Robocopy is your go-to command here. It's fast, robust, and on a restart can pick up where it left off.

rsync is also a good option, but you'll have to track down a copy for Windows and install it.

 

[Mongrel]

The problem is the sheer number of Windows installs and the sheer number of 3rd party apps, drivers, hardware etc and so on which means there will always be some combination of hardware and software that screws someone's build up.

I think a lot is down to system spec and driver support as well.
Back in the day I installed Vista and never had any problems with it*. Part of that, I think, was because I waited till SP1 but the rest was having a well specced PC with components from brands I trusted. A lot of the pre-builts were barely able to keep up with the minimum requirements.

*Yes, I know there were some baseline issues with Vista but they never overlapped with my usage.

 

[alfaniner]

I had another blackout and once I got it back up decided to do a full Shutdown/Restart again. Well, in the meantime it had re-downloaded the updates I'd backed out, and the only options for Shutdown were "Update and Shut down" and "Update and Restart".
I am running Core Temp which I think is one cause, where it turns off without the error (I have now set it to Sleep instead of Hibernate, I'll see if that tracks better.)
I also think a problem is with the newer Western Digital external hard drive. Copying to it may be using more resources than the old one did. I'll try the Robocopy.

 

[Dabop]

I've been running the equivalent of insider builds since MS started doing them for over a decade or so, only once have I had anything like a disaster. I have never had a single file deleted or otherwise made unusable. I've had dual boot with various combinations and so on.

The problem is the sheer number of Windows installs and the sheer number of 3rd party apps, drivers, hardware etc and so on which means there will always be some combination of hardware and software that screws someone's build up. Due to its success there isn't any feasible way for MS to test every possible variation of installation and upgrade. And don't forget I'm someone fine with the likes of Facebook being forced to spend most of their "profit" in moderating every social media message on their platforms, so it isn't a matter of it being unfeasible in terms of costs; it's simply that even in very strictly controlled corporate setups there are still variations in hardware and software setups add in all the ad-hoc installations and the only true testbed would be to duplicate every single installation in the world.

Now has MS and does MS make "unforced" errors? Of course it does. And to say it's never been a particularly "ethical" company on any level is... does it even need stating? I do think given its dominance it should be held to standards over companies aren't. Windows 10 was released 10 years ago but MS only stopped selling it directly in January 2023. I think it would be entirely proper to force it to provide security updates for 10 years past that. Yep that is expensive but the trillion dollar company could easily afford that. In the EU manufacturers of the likes of even washing machines have to provide spare parts for 10 years after purchase so it wouldn't even be being treated like an exceptional case in the EU.

This is win 11 doing it (I doubt you have been running W11 for over a decade lol)- and nearly every tech channel I am a subscriber to is saying the same things.... Grumpy Sysadmin, Rob Braxman, Hackbit- its actively deleting any dualboot systems partitions, leaking users data to its servers and deleting users files....

 

[theprestige]

If you have an existing machine with an OS or hardware which can no longer be updated and is a risk to expose to the internet, then the simplest solution if you have the time, space and budget is to get a new(er) machine for testing purposes which you can use to find other combinations of OS and software to match your current needs, where possible.

I for one appreciate the irony of, after a lifetime of paying a premium for the convenience of having apps that just work, being told to embrace a life of inconvenience as a user experience QA tester on unfamiliar operating systems.

 

[novaphile]

A friend was telling me much the same thing, but my concern is that Linux doesn't offer the ongoing security updates of Windows or Apple.

Erm what?

Who told you that lie, and why did you believe them?

I get security updates for my linux system all the time.

(Generally around weekly, but for urgent updates, any time.)

 

[shemp]

I gave up the ghost a week ago and downloaded 11. Haven't had any problems.

 

[Dabop]

Erm what?

Who told you that lie, and why did you believe them?

I get security updates for my linux system all the time.

(Generally around weekly, but for urgent updates, any time.)

Same here- and mine is 'technically' out of date (Bionic Beaver- 18.04.6 LTS- it was released back in 2018 and still receives regular updates lol)

 

[Dabop]

I for one appreciate the irony of, after a lifetime of paying a premium for the convenience of having apps that just work, being told to embrace a life of inconvenience as a user experience QA tester on unfamiliar operating systems.

Yes, it IS rather nasty of microsoft to do exactly that isn't it...

(mind you- microsoft has been using its users as 'guinea pig' beta testers for decades- so it shouldn't surprise anyone that they did it again...)

 

[theprestige]

Yes, it IS rather nasty of microsoft to do exactly that isn't it...

That's never been my experience.

(mind you- microsoft has been using its users as 'guinea pig' beta testers for decades- so it shouldn't surprise anyone that they did it again...)

I've been a Windows user for decades, and I've never had that problem.

 

[Wudang]

People might not notice Linux security updates as they're generally non-disruptive.