Avoiding Win 11 and staying with 10

[bruto]

It is still somewhat simple: just start typing. Of course you have to have individual addresses expand to a known address before starting on the next one. I agree this used to be a lot simpler by using semi-colons (I think)

If you know the addresses, of course you can enter them, but I've yet to figure out how I can select multiple addresses from the Address Book, and just put them in. And there used to be a way to organize a set of them into a single subfolder in the address book, and just put them all in at once. I must confess that I did not spend a huge amount of time trying to figure it out, as our ISP has a webmail setup in which it's very easy. I like the archiving and subfolder options of Thunderbird better, though.

 

[Dabop]

If you know the addresses, of course you can enter them, but I've yet to figure out how I can select multiple addresses from the Address Book, and just put them in. And there used to be a way to organize a set of them into a single subfolder in the address book, and just put them all in at once. I must confess that I did not spend a huge amount of time trying to figure it out, as our ISP has a webmail setup in which it's very easy. I like the archiving and subfolder options of Thunderbird better, though.

Just open up the new message, with the address book open down the side, and start clicking on the contacts you want to add, they just populate the address bar (click on CC/BCC to populate)

Normally you can read all the names on the list on the left, I narrowed it down to hide them- don't want to put all my contacts emails up on the net lol

 

[bruto]

I'll have to try that again. That's how it used to work, but I seem to recall that last times I've tried it with updated versions, it opened the contact instead of pasting it. I'm not at that computer at the moment.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

My win 10 desktop does occasional updates, and what happens there is that it stalls at a blue screen telling me not to shut off the computer. It will stay there forever, so finally I shut it off, and reboot, and the update finishes. My Win 11 laptop seems to be updating without issues.

I just wait and it seems to complete after a couple of minutes. Although I have done it in the past, turning the computer off in the middle of an update is not something I am comfortable with as that's how I destroyed my last remaining OS/2 Warp system.

I have bought a Win 11 machine but some of the software I've been using for years does not seem to work under 11. I have enrolled in the Extended Security Updates program so maybe I'm good until next October.

 

[Trebuchet]

I turned off the newer windows 10 laptop the other day after about three hous on the blue update screen. Started fine after.

 

[bruto]

I just wait and it seems to complete after a couple of minutes. Although I have done it in the past, turning the computer off in the middle of an update is not something I am comfortable with as that's how I destroyed my last remaining OS/2 Warp system.

I have bought a Win 11 machine but some of the software I've been using for years does not seem to work under 11. I have enrolled in the Extended Security Updates program so maybe I'm good until next October.

I tried just waiting. I think over night is long enough to guess it's crashed! I'm looking right now at an upgrade to a newer Win 11 machine, which I think might work OK for our purposes. The current one is getting a little slow, and there seems to be a hardware problem that causes the USB to crash from time to time. Not sure yet.

 

[Blue Mountain]

I tried just waiting. I think over night is long enough to guess it's crashed! I'm looking right now at an upgrade to a newer Win 11 machine, which I think might work OK for our purposes. The current one is getting a little slow, and there seems to be a hardware problem that causes the USB to crash from time to time. Not sure yet.

A huge issue here Microsoft's pathological aversion to meaningful progress reporting. One simply cannot tell if a long running process is ongoing but slow, has stalled out completely, or even crashed without taking down the whole system. To add insult to injury, MS doesn't even give you an option to view progress messages by, for example, pressing a key while the stupid rotating dots display is running. The best one can do is review messages after the fact using Event Viewer.

In Linux I can run all updates manually from the command line and actually monitor their progress.

According chat I had with the AI at lumo.proton.me, the following PowerShell commands do much the same, using a community-maintained tool called PSWindowsUpdate:

# Install the module (once)
Install-Module -Name PSWindowsUpdate -Scope CurrentUser

# List pending updates with detailed info
Get-WindowsUpdate -MicrosoftUpdate -Verbose

# Install updates while watching progress
Install-WindowsUpdate -AcceptAll -AutoReboot -Verbose

 

[bruto]

Well whatever problem I was having with Win 10 updates has solved itself forcibly. It crashed and I now have a newer Win 11 machine with a new drive, and fortunately most of the data from the old one salvaged, though none of the programs. It runs at least, and almost as soon as I started running it it decided it needed an update, which took a few minutes. In the next few days I'll be busy scrubbing off some of the Microcrap, and setting it up the way I like it, but I must say Win 11 is not as bad as I had feared, and it looks as if we're running both desk and lap tops in it now.

I have been getting a little more familiar with Linux in the meantime, and might yet become comfortable with the command line, but I must say that the syntax is strange, and, more importantly, the ability of people to explain the simplest and most fundamental things is crazily limited. All the instructions seem to start two steps in. I think I'm going to have to abandon attempts to do it via internet and buy a book!

 

[Dabop]

Well whatever problem I was having with Win 10 updates has solved itself forcibly. It crashed and I now have a newer Win 11 machine with a new drive, and fortunately most of the data from the old one salvaged, though none of the programs. It runs at least, and almost as soon as I started running it it decided it needed an update, which took a few minutes. In the next few days I'll be busy scrubbing off some of the Microcrap, and setting it up the way I like it, but I must say Win 11 is not as bad as I had feared, and it looks as if we're running both desk and lap tops in it now.

I have been getting a little more familiar with Linux in the meantime, and might yet become comfortable with the command line, but I must say that the syntax is strange, and, more importantly, the ability of people to explain the simplest and most fundamental things is crazily limited. All the instructions seem to start two steps in. I think I'm going to have to abandon attempts to do it via internet and buy a book!

Command line??? you still hand crank your car to start it too???

I haven't had to touch the command line in Ubuntu in a couple of decades.....

Oh sure I 'could' do things from it if I WANTED to..... (same as I could in Windows too)

But NEED to learn it- why??????

 

[Wudang]

Command line??? you still hand crank your car to start it too???

I haven't had to touch the command line in Ubuntu in a couple of decades.....

Oh sure I 'could' do things from it if I WANTED to..... (same as I could in Windows too)

But NEED to learn it- why??????

Yeah. I mainly use the command line for stuff my fingers can type without me thinking. This is true for both Linux and Windows.

 

[Wudang]

Bollocks. I bought a refurbished desktop with Win 11 installed. The latest updates won't install due to a lack of TMP 2.0. Research suggests I might as well avoid future pain by converting it to Linux rather than ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ around

 

[ohms]

Bollocks. I bought a refurbished desktop with Win 11 installed. The latest updates won't install due to a lack of TMP 2.0. Research suggests I might as well avoid future pain by converting it to Linux rather than ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ around

Do you know which motherboard it has? Worth checking to see if it just needs to be enabled in the BIOS.

 

[Wudang]

Do you know which motherboard it has? Worth checking to see if it just needs to be enabled in the BIOS.

I don't have access at the moment (it's in the study and SWMBO is working) but googling it probably has TMP 1.2 and needs a firmware update. Just venting really.
Anyway giving serious thought to install a Linux server edition on there as I use it almost as a server anyway. And I don't think I have anything running that doesn't run fine on Linux, apart from maybe a few games I never seem to play much these days.

 

[bruto]

Command line??? you still hand crank your car to start it too???

I haven't had to touch the command line in Ubuntu in a couple of decades.....

Oh sure I 'could' do things from it if I WANTED to..... (same as I could in Windows too)

But NEED to learn it- why??????

Because there is a documented and difficult glitch in the process for getting Dosbox to get into the "installed apps" group. Ideally, if you install an app such as this, it will get into that group, and you can activate, configure, etc. from there. But for reasons difficult to explain and more difficult to deal with, Doxbox does not end up there in Ubuntu. So I go on line and get various attempts to tell me how to accomplish this using command line commands to get it there. None work. Either the command doesn't exist or the destination doesn't exist or something else doesn't exist. Water over dam now, except for the challenge, which is going to have to wait.

I accidentally overwrote a Mozilla thunderbird profile, and lost some data there and am now trying to recover it, with limited success! I've done so well so far getting the new computer set up, but I pushed one button at the wrong moment and poof! A whole set of folders containing saved emails regarding upcoming trips has disappeared utterly, and not just deleted but overwritten by a new profile which is, of course, empty!

 

[bruto]

It took me a good part of the day to un-mess-up the loss of the Thunderbird files. When I first started it up it was not connecting yet, and I found the files there, in a default profile, waiting for some smart person not present to load the whole old profile back. Instead I set Tbird up to get mail,and it immediately overwrote the whole thing. Too long a saga to go into here, but I found some more copies of the files, found a way to trick Tbird into putting them back, which it is cleverly engineered never to do without an extension they don't tell you about. And on and on, but in the end the thing is looking pretty good, and at least it boots up without stalling and the mouse doesn't keep freezing up, and other stuff like that.

 

[Wudang]

Wtf? Microsoft warns Copilot AI might install malware.

https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft/windows-11/microsoft-warns-security-risks-agentic-os-windows-11-xpia-malware

 

[Darat]

Wtf? Microsoft warns Copilot AI might install malware.

https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft/windows-11/microsoft-warns-security-risks-agentic-os-windows-11-xpia-malware

At least it's being upfront about it. The issue I have is that you don't need to be that crafty, you can "trick" the "agentic AIs" by simply directing them to a webpage that looks 100% OK - but has some text that isn't immediately visible to a human - the simplest being white text on a white background. The AI will "read" that and can be directed to be naughty. As they say it ain't rocket science.

 

[Wudang]

At least it's being upfront about it. The issue I have is that you don't need to be that crafty, you can "trick" the "agentic AIs" by simply directing them to a webpage that looks 100% OK - but has some text that isn't immediately visible to a human - the simplest being white text on a white background. The AI will "read" that and can be directed to be naughty. As they say it ain't rocket science.

So once again we have computers being enabled to make mistakes we are trying to stop people making?

 

[Wudang]

Microsoft has a history of a disjointed approach to security. I truly believe the OS guys are committed to making their OS as secure as they can, PHB permitting. The problem is that other teams seem determined to get their features in regardless of implications to the underlying security model and the OS guys don't seem to be allowed a "hard NO". You can find a few posts from me discussing the Windows isWindowVisible() function which for me is a symptom of MS's haphazard approach to consistency among other traits I consider desirable in an OS provider. The above is another instance of chasing features over security. YMMV.

 

[Darat]

So once again we have computers being enabled to make mistakes we are trying to stop people making?

Yep. It's a scary scenario given how people are now using the AIs, I am astonished how many people are using them for advice, in all areas of their lives. It would be bad enough if your "AI assistant" was "hacked" to tell you that your bank account has been compromised and you need to transfer your money to a new safe account... but now the AI will do that for you...phew thank goodness my AI caught that and kept my money safe by transfering it into a crypto wallet...

 

[Wudang]

I saw a facebook post about someone using Gemini CLI and it screwing up their Git with git clean. I asked if you'd allow a new programmer you'd never worked with before to logon with your git credentials.

 

[Wudang]

Anyway my refurbed desktop (which I now gave a 1 * review on Amazon and reported an issue with) is a OptiPlex 7020 Small Form Factor (End of Life). Dell support leads me on a lovely dance through a maze of twisted little web pages all alike, telling me to select options that don't exist and follow links that aren't there. ISO9000 fail. Ubuntu server it is.

Some years back I was on the ferry to my home island and got talking to a friend of my brothers. She had a massive suitcase which she told me was full of Dell PCs. She worked for Dell and was being paid to go home and then phone in with various problems to see if Dell support was as bad as some said.
<Narrator>"Things did not go well."

 

[Darat]

I saw a facebook post about someone using Gemini CLI and it screwing up their Git with git clean. I asked if you'd allow a new programmer you'd never worked with before to logon with your git credentials.

Or even more appropriately your mate's teenager that is really good with computers...

 

[Wudang]

Anyway my desktop now has Ubuntu 24 on it. Easy install - only issue was my external 5Tb USB drive. Changed the mount filesystem from "auto" to "ntfs" and all good. Configuring Plex media server now.

 

[plague311]

I genuinely love this thread. It's been a blast to read, I just want everyone to know that. I hope Microsoft never ruins my life the way it has for some people in this thread lol. After a few decades of working with both Linux and Windows I don't think either have harmed me in the ways one or the other have harmed people in this thread. It's absolutely outstanding.

 

[alfaniner]

I had a weird thing today where I suddenly couldn't get the speakers to work, the Volume automatically went to 0. I went as far as looking into rolling back drivers (although no new ones had been installed.) After a couple full reboots it magically came back on again.

 

[plague311]

I had a weird thing today where I suddenly couldn't get the speakers to work, the Volume automatically went to 0. I went as far as looking into rolling back drivers (although no new ones had been installed.) After a couple full reboots it magically came back on again.

Usually when I see this happen it's because someone accidentally press a weird button combo. The end users I support do this quite a bit, and sometimes it's a pain to find the button combo to revert it.

 

[alfaniner]

Usually when I see this happen it's because someone accidentally press a weird button combo. The end users I support do this quite a bit, and sometimes it's a pain to find the button combo to revert it.

Whatever it was, it wasn't "Mute".

 

[Wudang]

Usually when I see this happen it's because someone accidentally press a weird button combo. The end users I support do this quite a bit, and sometimes it's a pain to find the button combo to revert it.

Or the button combo is so complicated it's easier to ask "Are you an octopus or otherwise 8-limbed? No, ok so press the windows key and type 'regedit'"

 

[bruto]

I have a similar issue from time to time with my laptop, in which suddenly the headphone jack does not switch over. I thought it might be a hardware failure, as this laptop has suffered from body flex, and I had to reseat the memory once and reinforce the bottom with a metal plate (cheap Dell!), but just as I was about to open it up again, it got better again, and has stayed better. No static or sensitivity. So I'm guessing some software somewhere just every once in a blue moon goes bad. Rebooting, all the usual troubleshooting, did not work. It just decided one day to come back. If there is button to revert, I have yet to figure out what it might be.

 

[Darat]

Usually when I see this happen it's because someone accidentally press a weird button combo. The end users I support do this quite a bit, and sometimes it's a pain to find the button combo to revert it.

Many, many moons ago - be late 1980s - a business I was a partner in produced software and provided the computer hardware for companies etc. to run local lotteries. We sold one setup to the local rugby club and they kept having "technical" problems. We found out that two people had an unusual way of typing "shift+another key" one would type it as: press shift key - take finger off shift key - type the character required and the other would attempt to type with two different fingers pressing both the shift and the other key at the same time like they were a reaction test. The thing is that when we were trying to figure it out we'd have them on the phione and be talking them through and say now press "shift-S" and they would say they had but of course it didn't do as it should. Very, very frustrating for all of us. Helped the younger me to learn not to take anything a user says on face value!

 

[plague311]

Helped the younger me to learn not to take anything a user says on face value!

The most difficult, yet vitally important, lesson to learn in all of IT.

 

[Mongrel]

What I like in Win 11 is that I can edit the outputs available

We found out that two people had an unusual way of typing "shift+another key" one would type it as: press shift key - take finger off shift key - type the character required

I bet they also used Caps Lock to type capital letters as well

 

[Darat]

What I like in Win 11 is that I can edit the outputs available

I bet they also used Caps Lock to type capital letters as well

I don't know if we ever went to that advanced level with them.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Another Windows 11 update has now broken the auto-hide taskbar entirely.

Thanks to advice here, from Mongrel and others, I had got used to tapping the Windows key twice whenever the taskbar refused to reappear. That always reactivated it. Microsoft's new update has, to my amazement, somehow succeeded in killing that fix.

Why can't they just leave stuff the hell alone and stop breaking it?

 

[plague311]

Another Windows 11 update has now broken the auto-hide taskbar entirely.

Thanks to advice here, from Mongrel and others, I had got used to tapping the Windows key twice whenever the taskbar refused to reappear. That always reactivated it. Microsoft's new update has, to my amazement, somehow succeeded in killing that fix.

Why can't they just leave stuff the hell alone and stop breaking it?

Pretty much every OS breaks sporadically during updates. If you uncheck the setting for "Automatically hide the taskbar" does the taskbar show up correctly? If you'd like I could provide a few command line options to see if something got corrupted. They don't usually take too long to run and can sometimes clear up other things as well.

One of them is:

sfc /scannow

That just runs a system file check. It runs a check against the windows repository and looks for corrupted files and then replaces them. That would be a good place to start. There are also a bunch of DISM commands, but those are generally to clean up or repair an image, which I'm not sure is really the issue here. I run the sfc and a DISM check on my system at home whenever I run into issues and it usually clears them up.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Yes the taskbar stays put if I disable autohide. Thanks, but I think I'm going to wait for Microsoft to fix it. The bug affects both my work and personal laptops - different brand machines - and a quick Google for "Windows 11 update broke autohide taskbar" hints that MS are aware they've screwed it up, so it's not a problem specific to my computer.

 

[plague311]

Yes the taskbar stays put if I disable autohide. Thanks, but I think I'm going to wait for Microsoft to fix it. The bug affects both my work and personal laptops - different brand machines - and a quick Google for "Windows 11 update broke autohide taskbar" hints that MS are aware they've screwed it up, so it's not a problem specific to my computer.

Makes sense to me! Not many users here at work autohide the task bar so I haven't seen the issue pop up (pun intended) here in the office. Hopefully it's a quick turn around, and if Microsoft is aware of it and hasn't handed out a resolution then I don't think my solutions would work anyway. It would only work if they had a fix.

I do get a kick out of Dabop laughing at it like Linux doesn't have a ton of issues itself. Like in September when the updates themselves were broken and wouldn't work, or when an update broke all nvidia drivers, etc. I don't get the tribalism with OS's. I seriously don't.

 

[novaphile]

Makes sense to me! Not many users here at work autohide the task bar so I haven't seen the issue pop up (pun intended) here in the office. Hopefully it's a quick turn around, and if Microsoft is aware of it and hasn't handed out a resolution then I don't think my solutions would work anyway. It would only work if they had a fix.

I do get a kick out of Dabop laughing at it like Linux doesn't have a ton of issues itself. Like in September when the updates themselves were broken and wouldn't work, or when an update broke all nvidia drivers, etc. I don't get the tribalism with OS's. I seriously don't.

Wow.

I must lead a charmed life.

Being using linux since 1996 and have never had a failed update.

 

[plague311]

Wow.

I must lead a charmed life.

Being using linux since 1996 and have never had a failed update.

Perhaps, I don't know.

I'm sure that all Linux users have been using Linux forever and there has never, ever been a problem with the OS as long as the system has been around. I'm sure all of the forums and reddit posts about all of the issues that have been reported by users can be chalked up completely and entirely to user error. The systems, all of them in their entirety, are created, updated, and executed flawlessly.

What a fool I've been to use both windows and Linux, instead of only Linux.