Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 32

[euroneighbour]

How could I have missed that?!!

HUDOC - European Court of Human Rights

The HUDOC database provides access to the case-law of the Court (Grand Chamber, Chamber and Committee judgments and decisions, communicated cases, advisory opinions and legal summaries from the Case-Law Information Note), the European Commission of Human Rights (decisions and reports) and the...

hudoc.echr.coe.int

Knox c. Italy II is already communicated!

Sorry, the link doesn't work any more for me and leads to a decided case "Seyhan v. Turkey"! Can anybody help with a replacement of the access to Knox v. Italy II?

 

[Numbers]

Sorry, the link doesn't work any more for me and leads to a decided case "Seyhan v. Turkey"! Can anybody help with a replacement of the access to Knox v. Italy II?

I hope this link remains stable:

HUDOC - European Court of Human Rights

The HUDOC database provides access to the case-law of the Court (Grand Chamber, Chamber and Committee judgments and decisions, communicated cases, advisory opinions and legal summaries from the Case-Law Information Note), the European Commission of Human Rights (decisions and reports) and the...

hudoc.echr.coe.int

Another way to get to this Communicated case is to use the HUDOC database and search for Knox v. Italy or case 24153/25 in the Communicated Cases.

 

[euroneighbour]

Thank you, this works!

 

[Numbers]

Let's attempt to analyze whether it's reasonable to expect a judgment in the ECHR case Knox v. Italy (No. 2) by the end of 2026.

Here's one approach:

Knox v. Italy (No. 1) was lodged with the ECHR on 24 November 2013, communicated to Italy on 29 April 2016, and the judgment was published 24 January 2019. That is, the Communication step required about 2 years and 5 months, while the Judgment step took about 2 years and 2 months.

Knox v. Italy (No. 2) was lodged with the ECHR on 4 August 2025 and communicated to Italy on 3 November 2025; this step took about 3 months. So the timing of the publication of the judgment is, perhaps, likely to be less than that for Knox v. Italy (No. 2). Several factors may influence the timing of the publication step, including but not necessarily limited to: how quickly Italy responds to the ECHR communication questions, the case backlog and workload burden on the ECHR, the degree of complexity of the case relative to ECHR case law, and the priority the ECHR assigns to the case (considering that it is a case that in effect challenges the functioning of the Convention system).

Based on my subjective view of the above factors, I guess that a publication of the ECHR judgment before the end of 2026 or 2027 is not unreasonable. The relatively quick communication of the case to Italy influences my view. On the other hand, we are still awaiting a judgment in the ECHR case Sollecito v. Italy, a case lodged with the ECHR on 22 December 2017 and communicated to Italy on 1 February 2022 (after about 4 years and 2 months; the communication was about 3 years and 11 months ago). The Sollecito v. Italy case, however, did not challenge the functioning of the Convention system.

 

[Numbers]

Let's attempt to analyze whether it's reasonable to expect a judgment in the ECHR case Knox v. Italy (No. 2) by the end of 2026.

Here's one approach:

Knox v. Italy (No. 1) was lodged with the ECHR on 24 November 2013, communicated to Italy on 29 April 2016, and the judgment was published 24 January 2019. That is, the Communication step required about 2 years and 5 months, while the Judgment step took about 2 years and 2 months.

Knox v. Italy (No. 2) was lodged with the ECHR on 4 August 2025 and communicated to Italy on 3 November 2025; this step took about 3 months. So the timing of the publication of the judgment is, perhaps, likely to be less than that for Knox v. Italy (No. 2). Several factors may influence the timing of the publication step, including but not necessarily limited to: how quickly Italy responds to the ECHR communication questions, the case backlog and workload burden on the ECHR, the degree of complexity of the case relative to ECHR case law, and the priority the ECHR assigns to the case (considering that it is a case that in effect challenges the functioning of the Convention system).

Based on my subjective view of the above factors, I guess that a publication of the ECHR judgment before the end of 2026 or 2027 is not unreasonable. The relatively quick communication of the case to Italy influences my view. On the other hand, we are still awaiting a judgment in the ECHR case Sollecito v. Italy, a case lodged with the ECHR on 22 December 2017 and communicated to Italy on 1 February 2022 (after about 4 years and 2 months; the communication was about 3 years and 11 months ago). The Sollecito v. Italy case, however, did not challenge the functioning of the Convention system.

For another approach to the timing of the anticipated judgment, the timing of a relevant previous judgment serves as a (more pessimistic) guide:

Mehmet Zeki Dogan v. Turkiye (No. 2) 3324/19, cited in the Knox v. Ital (No. 2) communication to Italy, was lodged with the ECHR on 26 December 2018, communicated to Turkiye on 28 August 2019 (8 months after being lodged), and the judgment was published 13 February 2024 (4 years and about 4.5 months after the communication).

Again, using largely subjective reasoning, the Dogan v. Turkiye (No. 2) case timing suggests that a judgment for Knox v. Italy (No. 2) could be published as late as about 4.5 years after the communication (no later than the end of 2030) or, scaling by the (approximate) ratio of the time from lodging to communication, no later than about April, 2027.

 

[Numbers]

The ECHR has a priority policy that was revised in 2017:

https://www.echr.coe.int/documents/d/echr/Priority_policy_ENG

Here are summaries of the priority levels:

Priority I are Urgent applications. These include cases where there is a risk to the life or health of the applicant, the applicant is deprived of liberty as a direct result of an alleged violation of Convention rights, or the welfare of a child is at risk.

Priority II are applications where the case raises a question that may impact the effectiveness of the Convention system or the legal systems of CoE states.

Priority III are applications alleging, in their main complaints, violations of Convention Articles 2, 3, 4, or 5.1, and the case involves direct threats to the physical integrity or dignity of persons.

Priority IV are well-founded applications based on Convention Articles not specified in the higher priorities.

Priorities V, VI, and VII include applications on issues already dealt with in a leading case or pilot judgment, having problems with admissibility, and manifestly inadmissible, respectively.

Thus, Knox v. Italy (No. 1) would have fallen into Priority III (because it included an Article 3 allegation) while Knox v. Italy (No. 2) would be Priority II because the case raises a question of Italy challenging the Convention system.

 

[TomG]

If Amanda eventually has the calunnia conviction overturned, I don't see any reason why she shouldn't sue Rudy for calunnia. After all, he's the one who falsely said Amanda was 100% there at VDP7. If the calunnia is overturned, there will be nothing to uphold Rudy's accusation. The problem, of course, is that Rudy probably doesn't have any money, but it means he's exposed even more as a liar.

Hoots

 

[Numbers]

If Amanda eventually has the calunnia conviction overturned, I don't see any reason why she shouldn't sue Rudy for calunnia. After all, he's the one who falsely said Amanda was 100% there at VDP7. If the calunnia is overturned, there will be nothing to uphold Rudy's accusation. The problem, of course, is that Rudy probably doesn't have any money, but it means he's exposed even more as a liar.

Hoots

If and when she gets the calunnia re-conviction quashed, she will be lawfully entitled to seek compensation for wrongful conviction (miscarriage of justice) from Italy. Of course, Italy may create some new barrier, as it did in response to Sollecito's request for compensation for unjust detention.

 

[TomG]

Italy had to pay Lumumba compensation for his 10-day stint in detention, but Amanda was still accused of calunnia against him and charged separately. I don't see why it would be any different with Amanda and Rudy.

 

[Numbers]

Italy had to pay Lumumba compensation for his 10-day stint in detention, but Amanda was still accused of calunnia against him and charged separately. I don't see why it would be any different with Amanda and Rudy.

You may not be taking into account the intentional dysfunctions or arbitrary actions sometimes taken by the Italian courts.

 

[TomG]

"Arrest by Analogy," Lumumba's book on the Kercher murder, is published.​

Looks like Lumumba is cashing in now.

'Arresto per analogia', esce il libro di Lumumba sull'omicidio Kercher - Notizie - Ansa.it

C'è un nuovo libro sulle controverse vicende legate all'omicidio di Meredith Kercher. (ANSA)

www.ansa.it

 

[Stacyhs]

According to Nina Burleigh, he already cashed in when he was paid by the Daily Mail for his provably lie-riddled story:

"Lumumba, when a British tabloid paid him 70,000 euros for an interview in 2008 (and again after getting 20,000 euros from an Italian television show), said that Amanda had swanned into his pub alone on Halloween, started downing his free red wine, and cozied up in a back corner..."

You can bet the PGP won't say a word about how he's cashing in while condemning Knox for casing in, just like they were silent about Mignini writing his book. Such hypocrites.

I wonder if PL will go into how 'well' he was treated by the police when they interrogated him.

 

[acbytesla]

If Amanda eventually has the calunnia conviction overturned, I don't see any reason why she shouldn't sue Rudy for calunnia. After all, he's the one who falsely said Amanda was 100% there at VDP7. If the calunnia is overturned, there will be nothing to uphold Rudy's accusation. The problem, of course, is that Rudy probably doesn't have any money, but it means he's exposed even more as a liar.

Hoots

Not worth it.

 

[Numbers]

A media article from 9 April 2024 includes this comment from an Italian lawyer:

Lauria Baldassare, an Italian lawyer who founded the Innocents Project, said the topic of wrongful convictions in Italy is starting to “create social alarm as it assumes important dimensions."

He cited 10 cases of defendants being paid damages for wrongful convictions over the last decade, but said they faced difficulty in escaping the stigma of their initial guilty verdict — much like Knox.

“There is still part of the public opinion that does not accept the Court of Cassation’s decision, and these debates become a sport,’’ said Baldassare, whose organization is independent from the Innocence Project that Knox works with. ”Italy does not have the maturity to accept an exoneration, because social prejudices are stronger than the finding."

Source: https://www.courthousenews.com/aman...ould-remove-the-last-legal-stain-against-her/

 

[Stacyhs]

”Italy does not have the maturity to accept an exoneration, because social prejudices are stronger than the finding."

It's not just social prejudices, but individuals who just cannot admit being wrong for some psychological reason. Narcissists and other very emotionally/psychologically insecure people see admitting error as a weakness. They must be right at all costs.

 

[AmyStrange]

It's not just social prejudices, but individuals who just cannot admit being wrong for some psychological reason. Narcissists and other very emotionally/psychologically insecure people see admitting error as a weakness. They must be right at all costs.

Yup, the first thing I learned in psychology is that the mind will do almost anything to keep the ego safe. including lie to itself.

It's actually the basis behind most psychological disfunctions.

 

[AmyStrange]

Yup, the first thing I learned in psychology is that the mind will do almost anything to keep the ego safe. including lie to itself.

It's actually the basis behind most psychological disfunctions.

TBH, I also get that way sometimes, but while working at Fred Hutch (Cancer Research Center) I met this guy who was crazy about following the rules and would give us crap when we deviated from them even a little bit. He always used to piss me off, and I always had some choice words to use on him. POS jackass were some of them.

That is until he died (he was only in his 40s), and I found out it was from lung cancer, and that's when I understood why he was that way, and it shamed me to my very core.

Ever since, I've always tried to remember that just because I think I'm right, doesn't mean I always am.

 

[TruthCalls]

"Arrest by Analogy," Lumumba's book on the Kercher murder, is published.​

Looks like Lumumba is cashing in now.

'Arresto per analogia', esce il libro di Lumumba sull'omicidio Kercher - Notizie - Ansa.it

C'è un nuovo libro sulle controverse vicende legate all'omicidio di Meredith Kercher. (ANSA)

www.ansa.it

Why in the world would anyone buy this book? I mean, he only met Meredith in passing, didn't know Guede or Raffaele, had nothing to do with the crime and has no more insight into what happened than I do, perhaps less. I suppose we can assume he'll point the finger at Amanda, not that he would have any way of knowing that, so it will likely be the pro-guilt who buy it. Me - like a bad movie, I'll wait till some poor sucker who wasted their money provides a 'review', so I can confirm I made the wise decision to ignore the book.

 

[Numbers]

Why in the world would anyone buy this book? I mean, he only met Meredith in passing, didn't know Guede or Raffaele, had nothing to do with the crime and has no more insight into what happened than I do, perhaps less. I suppose we can assume he'll point the finger at Amanda, not that he would have any way of knowing that, so it will likely be the pro-guilt who buy it. Me - like a bad movie, I'll wait till some poor sucker who wasted their money provides a 'review', so I can confirm I made the wise decision to ignore the book.

But the title has artful alliteration.