The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 28

[Bill Williams]

First duty is to a court. If you are a lawyer you don't mouth off about the courts you are subservient to.

A complete non sequitur of a post. This post doesn't even count as a word salad....

 

[Vixen]

Exactly HOW did the detectives 'vigorously investigate' Filomena, Sophie, and Shaky? Does your definition of 'vigorously' include verifying their alibis the night of the murder thus eliminating them as suspects? Wow. That's some vigorous investigation!

No, there were reasons the police and Mignini focused on Amanda which they have made quite clear. Follain explained them in his book: Amanda and Raff were kissing 'inappropriately' and 'smothering each other with kisses' (disproved by the actual video) and who (to Napoleoni)'seemed completely indifferent to Meredith's death' (not according to others there who said Knox cried). Napoleoni 'couldn’t help thinking that she (Knox) was hiding something from her' because her 'story didn't make sense'. I mean, who would go into a house with an open door (even though it had a broken lock and wouldn't stay shut) or would shower in a bathroom with a small amount of blood on the faucet and sink that indicated someone may have cut themselves and a previous look around the house had revealed nothing else suspicious)? According to Follain, Mignini immediately deduced that ''There’s a traitor in this house, someone who participated in the crime or helped to cover it up or who did both,’ and that 'only a woman would cover the body'. Laura was in Rome and had been the night of the murder so that eliminated her immediately. Romanelli had spent the night with her boyfriend and was also quickly eliminated. Who did that leave? Take a guess.

So, yes, there were reasons...but they were lousy ones based on false assumptions and inferences.

Filomena might be 'quickly eliminated' by the likes of you. Detectives set out to verify everything. This is why they are professional and you are not.

 

[Vixen]

LOL! What did they have to complain about? How many hours were they interrogated? Were any of them accused of lying? Were any of their characters assassinated by the media? Were any of them accused of murder? Were they arrested and imprisoned? Were they tried for murder? Were they treated as anything other than witnesses? NO. Purton's parents flew to Perugia immediately and were with her until she left Italy just after Knox's arrest.

But thank you for letting us know what Purton 'fully understood' and that she was 'happy to be thus inconvenienced'. I see your psychic abilities to know what others think and feel are coming in handy again.

Stop just making up crap and presenting it as fact.

Many, many hours. Followed, wire tapped, questioned incessantly.

Knox and Sollecito were not accused of murder or charged either, for at least eight months.

 

[Methos]

Like I always say, some people use The Library of Congress, the Library at Alexandria, or the Oracle of Delphi.....

..... we mostly use Methos.

Maybe Maffei's Oxford Ph.D. counts as Quennell's 100s of lawyers.

Maybe for 50% of them, the other 50% are most likely covered by Harvard Prof. Dershowitz

 

[Bill Williams]

First duty is to a court. If you are a lawyer you don't mouth off about the courts you are subservient to.

A lawyer's first duty IS to the court, but is defined by owing candor to the court combined with a vigorous representation of the client above all else.

While true, this relates to the discussion...... how?

 

[Bill Williams]

Many, many hours. Followed, wire tapped, questioned incessantly.

Knox and Sollecito were not accused of murder or charged either, for at least eight months.

So now it's your position that neither Sollecito nor Knox were suspects until 8 months after the crime?

Explain.

 

[Vixen]

A lawyer's first duty IS to the court, but is defined by owing candor to the court combined with a vigorous representation of the client above all else.

While true, this relates to the discussion...... how?

Your expecting Italy's barristers to rebel against the Italian Supreme Court publicly is rather like expecting Police Officer Pete Watson of Vancouver to rail against the Canadian police bosses. Ain't gonna happen. If he is like an English cop, he will have sworn an oath of allegiance to the quasi-military police force, just as soldiers swear allegiance to the crown.

 

[Vixen]

So now it's your position that neither Sollecito nor Knox were suspects until 8 months after the crime?

Explain.

Stacyhs put forward the question, were Sophie or Filomena accused of murder? And I responded that it was at least eight months before Knox or Raff were accused and charged either. So much for her pet theory, 'the police were too quick to rush to judgement'.

 

[Bill Williams]

Your expecting Italy's barristers to rebel against the Italian Supreme Court publicly is rather like expecting Police Officer Pete Watson of Vancouver to rail against the Canadian police bosses. Ain't gonna happen. If he is like an English cop, he will have sworn an oath of allegiance to the quasi-military police force, just as soldiers swear allegiance to the crown.

Please, then, explain Stefano Maffei.

 

[Bill Williams]

Stacyhs put forward the question, were Sophie or Filomena accused of murder? And I responded that it was at least eight months before Knox or Raff were accused and charged either. So much for her pet theory, 'the police were too quick to rush to judgement'.

..... and your answer implied that they had not even been suspected of murder for 8 months.

Please explain.

 

[Methos]

Detectives vigorously investigated amongst others Filomena, Sophie and 'Shaky'.

Detectives can't do their job properly if they are barred from investigating anyone.

You belief detectives decided to victimise Knox for no reason at all is totally absurd. Police have better things to do with their time than frame an innocent person for the murder of Meredith Kercher.

Final judgments state very clearly Knox was present at her murder, washed off Mez' blood from her person and covered up for Guede.

Wake up, smell the coffee.

Exactly HOW did the detectives 'vigorously investigate' Filomena, Sophie, and Shaky? Does your definition of 'vigorously' include verifying their alibis the night of the murder thus eliminating them as suspects? Wow. That's some vigorous investigation!

No, there were reasons the police and Mignini focused on Amanda which they have made quite clear. Follain explained them in his book: Amanda and Raff were kissing 'inappropriately' and 'smothering each other with kisses' (disproved by the actual video) and who (to Napoleoni)'seemed completely indifferent to Meredith's death' (not according to others there who said Knox cried). Napoleoni 'couldn’t help thinking that she (Knox) was hiding something from her' because her 'story didn't make sense'. I mean, who would go into a house with an open door (even though it had a broken lock and wouldn't stay shut) or would shower in a bathroom with a small amount of blood on the faucet and sink that indicated someone may have cut themselves and a previous look around the house had revealed nothing else suspicious)? According to Follain, Mignini immediately deduced that ''There’s a traitor in this house, someone who participated in the crime or helped to cover it up or who did both,’ and that 'only a woman would cover the body'. Laura was in Rome and had been the night of the murder so that eliminated her immediately. Romanelli had spent the night with her boyfriend and was also quickly eliminated. Who did that leave? Take a guess.

So, yes, there were reasons...but they were lousy ones based on false assumptions and inferences.

Filomena might be 'quickly eliminated' by the likes of you. Detectives set out to verify everything. This is why they are professional and you are not.

Vixen, could you please point me to the "paper trail" generated by this "vigorous investigation of Filomena, Sophie and 'Shaky'."?
It must be here somewhere TMoMK File library: Master list (home of the 10.000s of pages of evidence)...

Sophie Purton understood that whilst it was unpleasant to be under investigation and being asked to attend the questura, having her phone tapped and questioned about it and her whereabouts and not being able to leave Italy as all the other Brits ('the British birds', as Grinder called them) had done.

She fully understood the police were only doing their job and she was happy to be thus inconvenienced for the sake of her dear friend, Mez.

You never hear Sophie, Filomena or Shaky complaining.

LOL! What did they have to complain about? How many hours were they interrogated? Were any of them accused of lying? Were any of their characters assassinated by the media? Were any of them accused of murder? Were they arrested and imprisoned? Were they tried for murder? Were they treated as anything other than witnesses? NO. Purton's parents flew to Perugia immediately and were with her until she left Italy just after Knox's arrest.

But thank you for letting us know what Purton 'fully understood' and that she was 'happy to be thus inconvenienced'. I see your psychic abilities to know what others think and feel are coming in handy again.

Stop just making up crap and presenting it as fact.

Many, many hours. Followed, wire tapped, questioned incessantly.

Knox and Sollecito were not accused of murder or charged either, for at least eight months.

Vixen, while we are at it, could you, please provide evidence from the "Home of the evidence" for the highlighted part? ... Please...

 

[Bill Williams]

Vixen, could you please point me to the "paper trail" generated by this "vigorous investigation of Filomena, Sophie and 'Shaky'."?
It must be here somewhere TMoMK File library: Master list (home of the 10.000s of pages of evidence)...






Vixen, while we are at it, could you, please provide evidence from the "Home of the evidence" for the highlighted part? ... Please...

"Evidence"!?!? We don't need no steenking "evidence"!

 

[TruthCalls]

Stacyhs put forward the question, were Sophie or Filomena accused of murder? And I responded that it was at least eight months before Knox or Raff were accused and charged either. So much for her pet theory, 'the police were too quick to rush to judgement'.

As you have completely ignored the General Investigative Activity reports posted on the fake wiki....

Can you explain why, from 4 Nov onward, the ENTIRE focus of the investigation, per those reports, was on Amanda and Raffaele? No one else is even mentioned. No one but Amanda had their school work confiscated. No one but Amanda had personal notes confiscated. There are no transcribed phone calls from anyone but Amanda and Raffaele (and his family) noted in those reports. And lets not forget, the whole point of this discussion centered on whether they were suspects or witnesses when the interrogations began late 5 Nov.

Just two days after the murder and the investigation was fixated on Amanda and Raffaele. They were arrested and jailed even before any forensic results came back from the labs. HELL YES, the police were WAY too quick to rush to judgement.

You might be the only one who would suggest, after reading those reports, that they were mere witnesses. But hell, I get it.. you have over 11 years invested in your theories and conclusions and you'll be damned if your going to let a little thing like police activity reports get in your way.

 

[Vixen]

Please, then, explain Stefano Maffei.

He's independently minded.

 

[Methos]

Stacyhs put forward the question, were Sophie or Filomena accused of murder? And I responded that it was at least eight months before Knox or Raff were accused and charged either. So much for her pet theory, 'the police were too quick to rush to judgement'.

You migt want to read this one:
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.c...or-ordering-arrest-Knox-Lumumba-Sollecito.pdf

Il Pubblico Ministero Dr. Giuliano Mignini sost.
Visti gli atti del procedimento suindicato;
Rilevato che sussistono gravi indizi dei delitti di concorso in omicidio aggravato ex art. 576 n. 5)
i c.p.e violenza sessuale per cui si procede, a carico di DNA Lumumba, nato a Kindu (Zaire) il
5.05.1969, di KNOX Amanda Marie e di SOLLECITO Raffaele, in atti generalizzati, per i seguenti

What do you think judge Matteini had to deal with? ...

 

[Vixen]

Vixen, could you please point me to the "paper trail" generated by this "vigorous investigation of Filomena, Sophie and 'Shaky'."?
It must be here somewhere TMoMK File library: Master list (home of the 10.000s of pages of evidence)...






Vixen, while we are at it, could you, please provide evidence from the "Home of the evidence" for the highlighted part? ... Please...

Methos, look up the police tap files.

Bear in mind this trial is about Knox and Sollecito and not the dozens of other people who came under police radar, so none of those files will be in the court files as they turned out to be eliminated from the enquiry. Only evidence relevant to the case is going to be amongst the court documents.

However, truth is, Sophie having been the last to see Mez alive, apart from the killer/s, did come under great scrutiny by the police, not least because Knox and Sollicito pointed the police towards Shaky with their theatrical stage whispers in the Questura which they guessed was being bugged (which we can tell by their childish gratuitous swearing for fun) claiming they had their suspicions about him. Shaky was another who was definitely given a hrad time by the police, especially as he had returned to the area at midnight to pick up his car and Mez had once complained about his coming on to her. Add to that he became Sophie's boyfriend, we can surmise the police were VERY suspicious of Sophie and Shaky. Likewise Filomena, not all that far away from the murder scene as of the time of the crime. To the police mind, she would say she was with her boyfriend all night, just like Knox did but unlike Knox they eventually verified her story by thorough investigation.

Giacomo Silenzi was another one who aroused suspicion thanks to his being Mez' boyfriend.

There are no end of police suspects in any crime. How that is a surprise to Friends of Amanda is astonishing.

 

[Vixen]

As you have completely ignored the General Investigative Activity reports posted on the fake wiki....

Can you explain why, from 4 Nov onward, the ENTIRE focus of the investigation, per those reports, was on Amanda and Raffaele? No one else is even mentioned. No one but Amanda had their school work confiscated. No one but Amanda had personal notes confiscated. There are no transcribed phone calls from anyone but Amanda and Raffaele (and his family) noted in those reports. And lets not forget, the whole point of this discussion centered on whether they were suspects or witnesses when the interrogations began late 5 Nov.

Just two days after the murder and the investigation was fixated on Amanda and Raffaele. They were arrested and jailed even before any forensic results came back from the labs. HELL YES, the police were WAY too quick to rush to judgement.

You might be the only one who would suggest, after reading those reports, that they were mere witnesses. But hell, I get it.. you have over 11 years invested in your theories and conclusions and you'll be damned if your going to let a little thing like police activity reports get in your way.

Nonsense. You can't possibly know what undercover work police did on all sorts of individuals.

It's not unusual in a murder case to suspect the entire local male population and go door to door questioning them all.

 

[Methos]

"Evidence"!?!? We don't need no steenking "evidence"!

It is like TomG said:

I've encountered the same "s**tl***s of evidence" argument from guilters on various comments sections and debates. [...]
The bottom line is that the pro-guilt argument with it's "s**tl***s of evidence" still can't come up with a sustainable theory of the crime. What we get instead are petty little hit-and-run comments of little substance.

Hoots

The TMoMK Wiki apparently has all of the 10.000 pages of the so called "evidence". It's ironic, that apparently none of those using the "10.000 pages club" referring to TMoMK, has actually read what they are providing...

 

[Stacyhs]

Filomena might be 'quickly eliminated' by the likes of you. Detectives set out to verify everything. This is why they are professional and you are not.

Sigh. Filomena was quickly eliminated by the police as she had a verified alibi. From her boyfriend's depostion:

We stayed until 16:30-17:00 then I Filomena Luca Paola and Antonio ANGELONI, he was also invited to the birthday party, we
went, with my car, blue Seat Leon with registration number BR688JZ, to the fun fair where we stayed until around 20:00. Then I dropped Luca and Paola off at Luca’s home in Elce. Then I went to my home, in via Coperte, together with Filomena and Antonio Angeloni who lives near my home. Antonio went to his home while Filomena and I went to my home where I live alone.
We spent all evening at mine. Soon after coming home, at around 20:30 my girlfriend phoned her parents, in the meantime I fell asleep on the sofa. Towards 23:00 I received a phone call, maybe on the fixed phone, from Luca as I had arranged to go out in the late evening, I told him I was tired and I didn’t want to go out, Luca also agreed saying he would stay at home. Afterwards I watched a DVD with Filomena, but she fell asleep straight away. When the film ended we went to bed.

All the above could have been (and was) easily and quickly verified. But if you want/need to think that the police didn't eliminate FR within a day or two, have at it.

Stacyhs put forward the question, were Sophie or Filomena accused of murder? And I responded that it was at least eight months before Knox or Raff were accused and charged either. So much for her pet theory, 'the police were too quick to rush to judgement'.

LOL! Oh, please! This kind of nonsense does you no favors. Why do you resort to such ridiculous excuses?

It's not my 'theory' the police rushed too quickly to judgment. Their own words prove they did and the Marasca MR makes reference to it:

...therefore, reflecting the “international” nature of the story, it led to a sudden acceleration of the investigations, in the frantic search for one or more guilty people to placate international opinion, and certainly did not help lead to the real truth. In homicides such as this (such pressure) affects not only the timing but also the competence and the correctness of the investigative activities.

 

[AnimalFriendly]

Detectives set out to verify everything. This is why they are professional and you are not.

They didn't set out to verify "everything". There were a few things they intentionally didn't verify. Like whether a stain, that very well could have been semen, found under Kercher's body was or was not semen. That is why they were, and are, unprofessional. Like the very few remaining guilters who neither are professionals nor are capable of recognizing professionalism.