The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 30

[Stacyhs]

The difference between Mignini and Sollecito is that Mignini is merely performing the job he is paid to do as the state prosecutor. If you do not want to cross the path of an evil prosecutor, cop or prison warden, don't do the crime!

Meredith Kercher had no choice in Knox, Guede and Sollecito crossing her path.

That is the difference.

Knox and Sollecito didn't do the crime either. But you're right about Guede. Too bad the boys downstairs had ever connected with Guede however innocently. If they hadn't, Meredith would still be alive.

 

[Bill Williams]

He says so in his own submissions to the court.

Ah, er, no. Your characterization of what he'd said bears no resemblance to what he'd said. But thanks for answering, just the same.

I don't know about you but there is a direct correlation between being sent to jail and stabbing someone in the neck with your collection of fetish knives, tearing off your victim's bra and leaving a substantial amount of your DNA on the twisted out of shape bra-hook, leaving your footprint in your victim's blood on the bathmat and telling police numerous lies and providing false alibis. Maybe one day the penny will drop with Sollecito and he will seek help for his personality disorder that gives him a need to shock and outrage people.

There is no evidence, none at all, that he participated in Rudy Guede's crime. There is no evidence that he has a personality disorder.

Lastly, you were the one who introduced the concept of 'evil' so may I suggest you start a thread on this fascinating topic in the Philosophy / Religion section?

Thanks for the suggestion. However, you did not address the parallel I was trying to make. Then again I may have presented it poorly, and that's why you missed it. No matter.

 

[AnimalFriendly]

James Raper - his real name - is or was a defence lawyer.

Prove it. In his own book, the beginning anyway, he says absolutely nothing about what kind of lawyer he is or was. If he had any credentials, reputation, etc. whatsoever that would have bolstered his credibility, he would have surely included those.

He is an entirely trustworthy source.

He is nothing of the sort.

Heknew the family and often dropped by messages for them in person.

And you know this how? What sort of "messages"?

Raper said Arline is buried next to Meredith,

If this were true, one of the nutcases at TJMK would have surely posted a picture. By now.

Who knows?

Not you, that's for sure.

 

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
He knew the family and often dropped by messages for them in person.

Until the police served him with a protection order!

If this were true, one of the nutcases at TJMK would have surely posted a picture. By now.

Agreed. With photoshopped memorial featuring candles and lots of flowers.

 

[Vixen]

Until the police served him with a protection order!



Agreed. With photoshopped memorial featuring candles and lots of flowers.

Look. You asked. I tried to help. No good deed goes unpunished.

In the UK and in Europe there are strict personal privacy laws. If a friend or relative of a person who has been in the news doesn't announce a piece of personal news, such as on Facebook, the press don't either. The press gets its information from press releases, interviewing people directly or social media.

I fully understand that having swallowed whole the endless lies of Knox and Sollecito, you are wary of trusting anything as true!

 

[Bill Williams]

I fully understand that having swallowed whole the endless lies of Knox and Sollecito, you are wary of trusting anything as true!

Right. Lies. One request. Please list them. Discuss why each is a "lie", rather than something like "mistaken" or other such thing.

The reason why I request this.... I'd once had a private PM with a noted-guilter who ended up conceding a lack of evidence, all except, "all the lies they told."

I then took it upon myself to enumerate those actual "lies" as claimed by another noted-guilter, Harry Rag/The Machine. He once also repeated "all the lies" that AK and/or RS were to have told as the reason for his beliefs.

It took a while, but in his other posts he accused AK/RS of telling exactly 13 lies. Most of these were attributed to RS from the time he'd been held without access to a lawyer, his only source of information being what the PM and cops told him.

The one lie of AK's which made the list was the "accusation against Lumumba", but otherwise no other items made the list against her. Since then the ECHR has ruled for AK and against Italy on that, which, at the very least, removes it also from any list of lies.

Speaking of lies, consider the source of most guilter-nutter lies: the TJMK website. One such lie was its claim that Mignini had lost his defamation suit against Gumbal and Sollecito, only because the latter two people had promised to apologize to Mignini, "within the week".

That never happened.

 

[Methos]

[...]

Speaking of lies, consider the source of most guilter-nutter lies: the TJMK website. One such lie was its claim that Mignini had lost his defamation suit against Gumbal and Sollecito, only because the latter two people had promised to apologize to Mignini, "within the week".

That never happened.

Just for the record:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12754460

 

[Stacyhs]

Look. You asked. I tried to help. No good deed goes unpunished.

Tried to help? How? By trying to negate the lack of any burial record of Arline at the cemetery were Raper claims she is buried by attributing it being looked up by a lowly "gate keeper"? And presenting the absurd idea that Arline had resorted to being buried under her maiden, or even more absurd, her middle name?

In the UK and in Europe there are strict personal privacy laws. If a friend or relative of a person who has been in the news doesn't announce a piece of personal news, such as on Facebook, the press don't either. The press gets its information from press releases, interviewing people directly or social media.

Irrelevant. A person's death is not covered by privacy laws. That's why death records are available to the public in the UK.

Under UK law, death certificates are known as Public Records which means that any person can apply for a copy of any certificate, providing that they know the details of the death that is required.

https://www.vitalcertificates.co.uk/uk-death-certificate-information.html

Do you really think that, as big a case as the Kercher case was in the UK, that the death of Meredith's mother would not have rated a mention in a single tabloid? That not a single friend, friend of a friend, or acquaintance, not a single person connected to the cemetery, funeral home, etc would have contacted a tabloid and sold that story? John Kercher's death made the papers, why not Arline's? Could it be because she's not dead?

 

[Stacyhs]

Just for the record:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12754460

Yeah, that didn't work out too well for Slick Pete, did it?

 

[whoanellie]

Speaking of Peter Quenell and James Raper, here are some quotes from PQ's 10/12/2020 post on True Justice and the subsequent comments:

And last year he and his fatuous co-writer Andrew Gumbel lost big to Dr Mignini in a Florence court for defamations in Sollecito’s book. They had to pay substantial damages and sign a document admitting they had lied in the book.

- PQ

My recollection of Mignini’s action against Sollecito over his book is that the action was dismissed by consent after it became clear that Sollecito would never be in a position to pay a damages award and on the understanding that Sollecito would acknowledge that his book contained libel though when he would actually do so was not clear. In any event it does not seem that he has done so to date.

- JR

Sollecito signed the retraction and apology when the Sollecito team caved. We should see it in Dr Mignini’s forthcoming book.

Sollecito paid costs. I am not sure where you saw the “unable to pay”? Part of the deal was that there would be no major media report - Dr Mignini was still on the Umbria Appelate beat then.

- PQ

Did Sollecito pay "substantial damages"? "costs"? Or was he unable to pay anything?

 

[whoanellie]

Yesterday under a post entitled "New Facebook and Twitter Developments" Peter Quennell posted hundreds of comments from a Facebook page. Here are a few of the comments PQ copied and pasted into his post:

Pietro Milia Petta
Putting fingers in the nose is a prerogative of children. The gesture is not very popular, especially when it is done in adulthood. In fact, while the youngest children do not make qualms and look through their nostrils when they feel the need, adults explore the nasal orifice hiding from prying eyes. Putting one’s fingers in the nose is not seen favourably by most people, especially if done publicly. There is no certain data, but 99% of people cannot do without at least once a day. Aside from the coarse and crude gesture, is exploring one’s nose with fingers really as bad for one’s health as some scientists claim? In the opinion of Dr. Erich Voigt, not only does it hurt, but it endangers the physical state of the individual.

Iolanda Fondacaro
Solicito was acquitted and has every right to be compensated for unjust imprisonment. It does not matter what the assiduous viewers of monstrous TV programs believe, who determine who they think is guilty, and construct hypotheses that influence the judgment of those who watch this garbage paid handsomely with our tax money.

Simone Coea Favaro
The windscreen wiper as well as the arm can be made up of blade support frame, which is the structure that supports the blade, (until 1998 was exclusively formed by various metal elements or plastic material of which the main element was the carrier) or directly from the rubber applied to the arm as from last generation much more effective and durable.

Alberto Diamante
Some considerations on the sentence of Rudy Guede to “conspiracy to commit murder”:

It’s true that at the trial against Rudy Guede, the Court found him guilty of “conspiracy to commit murder” and referred several times to Amanda and Raffaele as the correi of the murder. But this should make anyone with a minimum of respect for the law and due process shudder.

1. Amanda and raffaele had not yet been tried.
2. DNA had not yet been analyzed by defense experts or independents
3. Amanda and Raffaele were not defendants:
4. Amanda and Raffaele could not defend themselves from the accusations
5. A/R lawyers were not and could not be present and present an alternative theory of evidence
6. The Court has taken for sacrosanct truth the statements of the prosecution (many of which were later denied),
7. I have never heard in any country in the world that a court finds two people guilty who are not even charged, have never been tried and deserve the presumption of innocence before any trial against them.
8. Not even in the worst banana republics would a judge allow himself to condemn people who are not even charged and have no criminal record.

 

[Stacyhs]

Speaking of Peter Quenell and James Raper, here are some quotes from PQ's 10/12/2020 post on True Justice and the subsequent comments:


- PQ

- JR

- PQ

Did Sollecito pay "substantial damages"? "costs"? Or was he unable to pay anything?

They can't keep their lies straight.

My recollection of Mignini’s action against Sollecito over his book is that the action was dismissed by consent after it became clear that Sollecito would never be in a position to pay a damages award and on the understanding that Sollecito would acknowledge that his book contained libel though when he would actually do so was not clear. In any event it does not seem that he has done so to date.

So much for Raper being a "trustworthy" source.

 

[Stacyhs]

Yesterday under a post entitled "New Facebook and Twitter Developments" Peter Quennell posted hundreds of comments from a Facebook page. Here are a few of the comments PQ copied and pasted into his post:

Petey needs to get out more.

I read through a few of them. A lot of the typical, hate-filled, ignorant crap we're all familiar with. Some of the 'Poor Rudy because he's black' nonsense. Nothing new. A few supporters. Ho hum.

 

[Numbers]

They can't keep their lies straight.



So much for Raper being a "trustworthy" source.

It's a definitional thing.

Trustworthy: worthy of confidence : dependable
synonyms include, among others: "reliable, safe, sure"*

However, "trustworthy" in the PGP sense means "dependably or reliably uttering falsehoods or misinformation"

* Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trustworthy

 

[Bill Williams]

Napoleoni and Zugarini

Perugia detective who arrested Knox and Sollecito, today sentenced to 3 years three months in prison for abuse of authority.

https://etrurianews.it/2020/09/20/o...EdNKPYDX072cV6iexLOd9MwzsEOAp90fKFVg5bEFgLhZU

Of note, this newspiece refers to the March 2015 action of the Italian Supreme Court as an acquital....

The two, arrested by Napoleoni themselves, were declared innocent after 7 years of trials and media pressure, and a first-degree sentence. They both spent nearly 4 years in prison waiting. In 2015 the final decision of the Cassation arrived, which acquitted both.​

 

[Numbers]

Perugia detective who arrested Knox and Sollecito, today sentenced to 3 years three months in prison for abuse of authority.

[HILITE]https://etrurianews.it/2020...rges of the crimes committed against Kercher.

 

[Numbers]

This conviction is a reminder of that some of the key Perugian police involved in the Kercher case were apparently willing to commit abusive acts for their own benefit. Therefore, they could likewise have committed such acts to close the Kercher murder case quickly and get their medals.

Here's a Google translation, with my help, of this 20 September 2020 article:



Note: the highlighted words in the last paragraph are translated from "innocenti" and "assolse", respectively. The facts as acknowledged by the Etruria News is that Knox and Sollecito were finally (definitively) acquitted and are thus innocent of the charges of the crimes committed against Kercher.

Another article gives some additional details:

Abusive investigation of the psychiatrist appointed by the judge for the separation {divorce}, the policewoman of the investigation into the Kercher crime convicted


Three years and three months of imprisonment for the former head of the homicide section of the Perugia Flying Squad Monica Napoleoni, accused of having used her position to initiate arbitrary investigations of a psychologist appointed by the Court in the context of a dispute between her and the ex-husband.

Her colleague Lorena Zugarini was sentenced to three years and two months for unauthorized access to the IT system, and the policewoman Stefania Squarta was sentenced to one year.

The judges sentenced three other people who allegedly helped Napoleoni in various capacities, with sentences ranging from one year and three months to 6 months and 15 days, with the benefit of suspension {of the sentence}. Three other defendants were acquitted.

The psychologist who filed a civil action, through the lawyer Valeriano Tascini, was awarded a provisional amount of 10 thousand euros, while 5 thousand euros goes to both daughters of the professional.

Source:
https://www.perugiatoday.it/cronaca...wW5ByD3xrr08KR6xgfHCJDn01aR_0kXoh1O6dwx34YsCA

Note that this article states that there was a larger conspiracy among the police than called out in the prior posted article: Not only were Napoleoni, the leader, and Zugarini and Squarta convicted, but three others who were not named in the article.

Translation by Google with my help.

 

[Vixen]

Right. Lies. One request. Please list them. Discuss why each is a "lie", rather than something like "mistaken" or other such thing.

The reason why I request this.... I'd once had a private PM with a noted-guilter who ended up conceding a lack of evidence, all except, "all the lies they told."

I then took it upon myself to enumerate those actual "lies" as claimed by another noted-guilter, Harry Rag/The Machine. He once also repeated "all the lies" that AK and/or RS were to have told as the reason for his beliefs.

It took a while, but in his other posts he accused AK/RS of telling exactly 13 lies. Most of these were attributed to RS from the time he'd been held without access to a lawyer, his only source of information being what the PM and cops told him.

The one lie of AK's which made the list was the "accusation against Lumumba", but otherwise no other items made the list against her. Since then the ECHR has ruled for AK and against Italy on that, which, at the very least, removes it also from any list of lies.

Speaking of lies, consider the source of most guilter-nutter lies: the TJMK website. One such lie was its claim that Mignini had lost his defamation suit against Gumbal and Sollecito, only because the latter two people had promised to apologize to Mignini, "within the week".

That never happened.

It was settled wasn't it? Settlements are generally confidential and the end of the matter.

As for the list of lies....how much time have you got...? Myself, I need to go and my get my winter tyres fitted otherwise I'd love to spend hours listing all the - shall we say - anomalies.

 

[Vixen]

Just for the record:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12754460

Google translate:

The acquittal has arrived for Raffaele Sollecito, who had to answer for the accusation of insulting the police before the judiciary of Florence, accused for some passages of "Honor bound, my journey to hell and back with Amanda Knox" . For the Tuscan judge "the fact does not exist" and therefore the passages of the memoir published in the United States on the legal matter linked to the murder of the English student Meredith Kercher, are not sufficient to support the accusation against her. Writer Andrew Gumbel, who with Sollecito had written the book, never published in Italy, was also acquitted yesterday. Inside, a reconstruction of the investigations carried out by the magistrate Giuliano Mignini considered "harmful". The judge had filed a complaint for some of the songs of "Honor bound", and then withdrew it, leaving standing only the accusation of insult, which has ceased today. "Another page linked to the painful murder of Meredith Kercher has closed and Raffaele has still been declared unrelated to the facts", commented after the sentence one of the two lawyers who followed Sollecito, Alfredo Brizioli.

You note, the hearing that was scheduled 'was ceased today'.

Do you understand how settlements work? They happen before or during a hearing and this immediately brings proceedings to a halt if the judge agrees.

 

[Vixen]

Tried to help? How? By trying to negate the lack of any burial record of Arline at the cemetery were Raper claims she is buried by attributing it being looked up by a lowly "gate keeper"? And presenting the absurd idea that Arline had resorted to being buried under her maiden, or even more absurd, her middle name?



Irrelevant. A person's death is not covered by privacy laws. That's why death records are available to the public in the UK.


https://www.vitalcertificates.co.uk/uk-death-certificate-information.html

Do you really think that, as big a case as the Kercher case was in the UK, that the death of Meredith's mother would not have rated a mention in a single tabloid? That not a single friend, friend of a friend, or acquaintance, not a single person connected to the cemetery, funeral home, etc would have contacted a tabloid and sold that story? John Kercher's death made the papers, why not Arline's? Could it be because she's not dead?

No, what I said was, it is common for people to be known during life by their middle name or a nickname, or diminutive, but official records show their full name.

It is also conventional for an agent or family member to inform the press. Sometimes we do not know of the death of a famous person until weeks later.

Arline was known as Meredith Kercher's mother. She is not in the category of celebrity. John Kercher's death was in the street with a suspicion of a hit and run driver so the information probably came from the police looking for witnesses.