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Trump's Second Term

Hlafordlaes said:
All of that is fine and dandy, but what is the correct stance other nations and all peoples should take with respect to Trump's USA? Chat about it with indignation, expiate our sins by being "right thinking" persons above the fray, and have a nice comfy latte? Let us bear in mind that:
  • The US now clearly aligns itself with its former enemies against its former allies
  • The US is openly participating in genocide with unwavering support from both major parties
  • The US misused its allies in two major wars, only to abandon all and walk away, spending allied lives haphazardly and with no regard
  • The US is now openly toying with nuclear war (big booms for big boys to celebrate in the playroom)
  • The US has zero regard for international laws and norms
  • USA First means "I win, you lose" in all matters, so "knuckle under"
  • The US now supports imperial conquest of lands it whimsically feels nice to own
  • The US declares its national security interests trump all, superseding law, given word, signed treaties, and just yesterday's promises
  • There is more than an even chance that no matter US public opinion, one fixated on the price of eggs and other bling boy "crises", shall not prevail against the authoritarian regime now in power, such that removal of this regime may only be accomplished by force
  • The US disregards all international legal and consultative bodies as illegitimate
  • The US holds itself above the ICJ and ICC, claiming bias while stating its own jurisprudence is free of it (let us barf, heave again, and barf)
  • Its own Supreme Court has granted the nation's dear leader god-like impunity
  • US troops now goose step across the land
  • Lil' boy popgun pansies now run around assassinating their non-Nazi neighbors in a growing nationwide putsch
I believe that an informed stance requires an honest adult not living in Russia or Israel to conclude that the United States of America, a deeply flawed nation in the grip of above-Goebbels-level propaganda,is the enemy, the main adversary of the rule of law and rights-based governance going forward. That all preparation must be made, first to survive American aggression, then to overcome and defeat it. That all nations and persons wishing to abide by international law, humanitarian concerns, and measures required for the survival of essential ecosystems must now unite against the US of A and prepare to oppose it and thwart its actions by any and all means. Any and all, short of nuclear war.

Or is the best response to knuckle under, kiss ring, and beg?

There is no third option that is not imaginary. Today's US is the enemy. Now what?
Click to expand...
I think a lot of Europe are following the adage that you keep your friends close and your enemies closer still.
 
Planigale said:
I think a lot of Europe are following the adage that you keep your friends close and your enemies closer still.
Click to expand...
More broadly, I'd say that there's also inertia and the various softer ties that still exist in play with that stance. That's a relatively temporary state of affairs, of course, if Trump and the Republican Party get their way.
 
Hlafordlaes said:
All of that is fine and dandy, but what is the correct stance other nations and all peoples should take with respect to Trump's USA? Chat about it with indignation, expiate our sins by being "right thinking" persons above the fray, and have a nice comfy latte? Let us bear in mind that:
  • The US now clearly aligns itself with its former enemies against its former allies
  • The US is openly participating in genocide with unwavering support from both major parties
  • The US misused its allies in two major wars, only to abandon all and walk away, spending allied lives haphazardly and with no regard
  • The US is now openly toying with nuclear war (big booms for big boys to celebrate in the playroom)
  • The US has zero regard for international laws and norms
  • USA First means "I win, you lose" in all matters, so "knuckle under"
  • The US now supports imperial conquest of lands it whimsically feels nice to own
  • The US declares its national security interests trump all, superseding law, given word, signed treaties, and just yesterday's promises
  • There is more than an even chance that no matter US public opinion, one fixated on the price of eggs and other bling boy "crises", shall not prevail against the authoritarian regime now in power, such that removal of this regime may only be accomplished by force
  • The US disregards all international legal and consultative bodies as illegitimate
  • The US holds itself above the ICJ and ICC, claiming bias while stating its own jurisprudence is free of it (let us barf, heave again, and barf)
  • Its own Supreme Court has granted the nation's dear leader god-like impunity
  • US troops now goose step across the land
  • Lil' boy popgun pansies now run around assassinating their non-Nazi neighbors in a growing nationwide putsch
I believe that an informed stance requires an honest adult not living in Russia or Israel to conclude that the United States of America, a deeply flawed nation in the grip of above-Goebbels-level propaganda, is the enemy, the main adversary of the rule of law and rights-based governance going forward. That all preparation must be made, first to survive American aggression, then to overcome and defeat it. That all nations and persons wishing to abide by international law, humanitarian concerns, and measures required for the survival of essential ecosystems must now unite against the US of A and prepare to oppose it and thwart its actions by any and all means. Any and all, short of nuclear war.

Or is the best response to knuckle under, kiss ring, and beg?

There is no third option that is not imaginary. Today's US is the enemy. Now what?
Click to expand...
Perspective: There's a lot more "rest of the world" than there is USA. So Trump can be the big stinky fish in his own small pond. Out here, we will work with each other as before, for better or worse. If any Americans would like to join us, they would be welcomed.
 
Hlafordlaes said:
All of that is fine and dandy, but what is the correct stance other nations and all peoples should take with respect to Trump's USA? Chat about it with indignation, expiate our sins by being "right thinking" persons above the fray, and have a nice comfy latte? Let us bear in mind that:
  • The US now clearly aligns itself with its former enemies against its former allies
  • The US is openly participating in genocide with unwavering support from both major parties
  • The US misused its allies in two major wars, only to abandon all and walk away, spending allied lives haphazardly and with no regard
  • The US is now openly toying with nuclear war (big booms for big boys to celebrate in the playroom)
  • The US has zero regard for international laws and norms
  • USA First means "I win, you lose" in all matters, so "knuckle under"
  • The US now supports imperial conquest of lands it whimsically feels nice to own
  • The US declares its national security interests trump all, superseding law, given word, signed treaties, and just yesterday's promises
  • There is more than an even chance that no matter US public opinion, one fixated on the price of eggs and other bling boy "crises", shall not prevail against the authoritarian regime now in power, such that removal of this regime may only be accomplished by force
  • The US disregards all international legal and consultative bodies as illegitimate
  • The US holds itself above the ICJ and ICC, claiming bias while stating its own jurisprudence is free of it (let us barf, heave again, and barf)
  • Its own Supreme Court has granted the nation's dear leader god-like impunity
  • US troops now goose step across the land
  • Lil' boy popgun pansies now run around assassinating their non-Nazi neighbors in a growing nationwide putsch
I believe that an informed stance requires an honest adult not living in Russia or Israel to conclude that the United States of America, a deeply flawed nation in the grip of above-Goebbels-level propaganda, is the enemy, the main adversary of the rule of law and rights-based governance going forward. That all preparation must be made, first to survive American aggression, then to overcome and defeat it. That all nations and persons wishing to abide by international law, humanitarian concerns, and measures required for the survival of essential ecosystems must now unite against the US of A and prepare to oppose it and thwart its actions by any and all means. Any and all, short of nuclear war.

Or is the best response to knuckle under, kiss ring, and beg?

There is no third option that is not imaginary. Today's US is the enemy. Now what?
Click to expand...
Every time you're attending a conference including him, wear your steel toecaps and do the needful.
 
Puppycow said:
Does anyone remember the eve of the election when Trump accused Kamala Harris of being a warmonger who would invade the Middle East?

Trump claims Harris will ‘invade the Middle East’ in final appeal to Arab voters



Oh yeah. Also, does anyone remember the deal that Obama had with Iran that would have prevented Iran from enriching uranium? The one that Trump campaigned against and backed out of during his first term?
www.politifact.com

Did Trump's Iran nuclear deal exit affect today's conflict?

President Trump withdrew from the Obama-era Iran nuclear deal in 2018. He broke his 2016 promise to renegotiate the deal. The deal had allowed foreign monitoring in exchange for relief from sanctions, but Trump said it didn’t go far enough.
www.politifact.com www.politifact.com


Nope. Trump wanted a better deal. Instead, we got no deal at all and Iran went back to enriching uranium. Well, where did that lead?

Now?

Enthralled by Israel’s successes, Trump appears poised to join campaign against Iran




So glad we got rid of those warmongering Democrats so that Trump could usher in a new era of peace and prosperity.
Click to expand...
But at least he got rid of the Obama deal which is the important thing.
 
steenkh said:
Did Slotkin give up after that?
Click to expand...
Yes and no. She got Hegseth to say there were no arrests going on - but not there there was no authority.

HEGSETH: If necessary, in their own self-defense, they could temporarily detain and hand over to ICE, but there’s no arresting going on. And you know this better than ... you’re trying to play political games, there’s no arrest of U.S. personnel.

but then she moved on to 'cyber tools; for some reason (I guess they have limited time, so can't just grind on one point forever)

SLOTKIN: Have you authorized the U.S. military to use cyber tools of the U.S. military against members of the protest? Have you authorized U.S. military cyber tools to investigate people participating in these protests? Yes or no.

HEGSETH: Certainly in no way that I’d be aware of.

Which is sort of a 'no', but obviously phrased in a way that he would weasel out of it later if necessary.
 
Worm said:
Yes and no. She got Hegseth to say there were no arrests going on - but not there there was no authority.

HEGSETH: If necessary, in their own self-defense, they could temporarily detain and hand over to ICE, but there’s no arresting going on. And you know this better than ... you’re trying to play political games, there’s no arrest of U.S. personnel.

but then she moved on to 'cyber tools; for some reason (I guess they have limited time, so can't just grind on one point forever)

SLOTKIN: Have you authorized the U.S. military to use cyber tools of the U.S. military against members of the protest? Have you authorized U.S. military cyber tools to investigate people participating in these protests? Yes or no.

HEGSETH: Certainly in no way that I’d be aware of.

Which is sort of a 'no', but obviously phrased in a way that he would weasel out of it later if necessary.
Click to expand...
 
Worm said:
Yes and no. She got Hegseth to say there were no arrests going on - but not there there was no authority.

HEGSETH: If necessary, in their own self-defense, they could temporarily detain and hand over to ICE, but there’s no arresting going on. And you know this better than ... you’re trying to play political games, there’s no arrest of U.S. personnel.

but then she moved on to 'cyber tools; for some reason (I guess they have limited time, so can't just grind on one point forever)

SLOTKIN: Have you authorized the U.S. military to use cyber tools of the U.S. military against members of the protest? Have you authorized U.S. military cyber tools to investigate people participating in these protests? Yes or no.

HEGSETH: Certainly in no way that I’d be aware of.

Which is sort of a 'no', but obviously phrased in a way that he would weasel out of it later if necessary.
Click to expand...
No need to leave wriggle room, Republicans have learned that they can simply lie and there are no consequences
 
Hlafordlaes said:
All of that is fine and dandy, but what is the correct stance other nations and all peoples should take with respect to Trump's USA? Chat about it with indignation, expiate our sins by being "right thinking" persons above the fray, and have a nice comfy latte? Let us bear in mind that:
  • The US now clearly aligns itself with its former enemies against its former allies
  • The US is openly participating in genocide with unwavering support from both major parties
  • The US misused its allies in two major wars, only to abandon all and walk away, spending allied lives haphazardly and with no regard
  • The US is now openly toying with nuclear war (big booms for big boys to celebrate in the playroom)
  • The US has zero regard for international laws and norms
  • USA First means "I win, you lose" in all matters, so "knuckle under"
  • The US now supports imperial conquest of lands it whimsically feels nice to own
  • The US declares its national security interests trump all, superseding law, given word, signed treaties, and just yesterday's promises
  • There is more than an even chance that no matter US public opinion, one fixated on the price of eggs and other bling boy "crises", shall not prevail against the authoritarian regime now in power, such that removal of this regime may only be accomplished by force
  • The US disregards all international legal and consultative bodies as illegitimate
  • The US holds itself above the ICJ and ICC, claiming bias while stating its own jurisprudence is free of it (let us barf, heave again, and barf)
  • Its own Supreme Court has granted the nation's dear leader god-like impunity
  • US troops now goose step across the land
  • Lil' boy popgun pansies now run around assassinating their non-Nazi neighbors in a growing nationwide putsch
I believe that an informed stance requires an honest adult not living in Russia or Israel to conclude that the United States of America, a deeply flawed nation in the grip of above-Goebbels-level propaganda, is the enemy, the main adversary of the rule of law and rights-based governance going forward. That all preparation must be made, first to survive American aggression, then to overcome and defeat it. That all nations and persons wishing to abide by international law, humanitarian concerns, and measures required for the survival of essential ecosystems must now unite against the US of A and prepare to oppose it and thwart its actions by any and all means. Any and all, short of nuclear war.

Or is the best response to knuckle under, kiss ring, and beg?

There is no third option that is not imaginary. Today's US is the enemy. Now what?
Click to expand...

as long as the dollar is the reserve currency, the rest of the world has little choice. and it’s not exactly easy to switch over

but, somehow, the people primarily responsible for all you listed see dead set on making that happen. at the same time other nations don’t seem too keen on stepping in.

so it’s a bit of a stand off
 
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