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Trump's promised ICE raids have begun

plague311 said:
Biden was the incumbent. It's pretty standard to leave the decision up to them. I partially agree that I wish Biden would have dropped out earlier, and that the caucuses, or whatever, would have been run better. That being said, they still aren't responsible. There was nothing wrong with Kamala as a candidate. She was intelligent, well-spoken, compassionate and understood politics. She was the VP.

The only people to blame for Trump are his supporters and the GOP. Full stop.
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I don't think the middle ground voters ("independents") found much fault with Harris the candidate, but were already negative about anything connected to Biden when he started to fumble. She was "part of it" to them. Voters who do not car much about politics still fo4rm some kind of strange bond with presidential candidates. Not so much with the rest of politics. As the presidencey proceed, many cabinet members become well known public figures. Congress people...who cares?
 
Tero said:
I fail to see how "democrats" are responsible for Trump 2. They ran an intelligent, qualified candidate against an unhinged, mentally aloof, menace.
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Pretty much for not talking Biden out of it by 2022. A younger candidate would have been found, would have run against a Republican of the same age and one of them would have won. We had Trump and Biden in the picture way too long.
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It did not matter if Biden dropped out early, dropped out when he did, or stayed in the race until the very end. It did not matter if the candidate was Biden, Harris, or a rotting turnip.

Whomever the democrats could have put forward was better than Stubby McBonespurs, given the fact that Trump was a convicted felon who tried to overthrow democracy in his first time around, who put forward policies that were destructive to the U.S. Any trump supporter trying to shift blame by saying "I might have voted democrat but I didn't like the way Harris was nominated" is just trying to excuse their own racism.
 
Tero said:
outofjanshead
"Hyundai is closing its plant after the raid, 8500 American jobs and 4.3 billion dollar investment from South Korea... gone."
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Is there any corroboration of this random person's post? If so, I can't find it. They have announced they are pausing the project but that's a long way from closing a plant or cancelling the project.

I wish they would but I really can't see that happening.
 
Tero said:
I don't think the middle ground voters ("independents") found much fault with Harris the candidate, but were already negative about anything connected to Biden when he started to fumble. She was "part of it" to them.
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I completely understand the premise but here's the biggest thing for me: Biden didn't do anything wrong either. He was a milquetoast POTUS for sure, but the country wasn't run poorly under him. If middle ground voters found fault with him, or the method of nomination for Harris, then they weren't going to vote Dem anyway. That's what I'm having difficulty understanding is what were the independents negative on Biden about? The growing economy, COVID being under control, great jobs reports, good foreign relations? Even if Harris was Biden 2.0, I don't get the problem.
Tero said:
Voters who do not care much about politics still form some kind of strange bond with presidential candidates. Not so much with the rest of politics. As the presidency proceed, many cabinet members become well known public figures. Congress people...who cares?
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Yeah, people are dumb, for sure.
 
plague311 said:
I completely understand the premise but here's the biggest thing for me: Biden didn't do anything wrong either. He was a milquetoast POTUS for sure, but the country wasn't run poorly under him. If middle ground voters found fault with him, or the method of nomination for Harris, then they weren't going to vote Dem anyway. That's what I'm having difficulty understanding is what were the independents negative on Biden about? The growing economy, COVID being under control, great jobs reports, good foreign relations? Even if Harris was Biden 2.0, I don't get the problem.


Yeah, people are dumb, for sure.
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The Biden situation was more to do with media. The debate made him look weak and out of control.

The moment Trump appears weak or sick, it's over. He has managed to sound normal for a week.
 
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Andy_Ross said:
Federal immigration agents were seemingly forced to retreat from a roofing job site in Rochester, NY, after being confronted by more than 100 protesters

The workers stayed on the roof and agents drove away in a Border Patrol SUV on four flat tires, which had been slashed

https://bsky.app/profile/phillewis.bsky.social%2Fpost%2F3lygpfmyhrs2p
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I'm glad the US is still in a place where it's possible to do things like this. It'll encourage the resistance and bolster morale.
 
Andy_Ross said:
Because the Media are all in Trump's pocket.
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I disagree that "the media are all in Trump's pocket"

There ARE media outlets that are definitely pro-Trump/pro-fascist (Fox news for example).

As for other media sources... I don't necessarily think they are "pro-Trump". But, I think they have this misguided notion that in order to be "Unbiased" they have to be negative about BOTH candidates to some degree. So in the 2016 election, rather than being the 24/7 "Look at how bad Stubby McBonespurs is" news channel, they had to mix in some anti-Hillary coverage into the mix (despite the fact that Trump was so much worse) just so people might not think "These leftest sources are just as biased as Fox news".
 
Segnosaur said:
I disagree that "the media are all in Trump's pocket"

There ARE media outlets that are definitely pro-Trump/pro-fascist (Fox news for example).

As for other media sources... I don't necessarily think they are "pro-Trump". But, I think they have this misguided notion that in order to be "Unbiased" they have to be negative about BOTH candidates to some degree. So in the 2016 election, rather than being the 24/7 "Look at how bad Stubby McBonespurs is" news channel, they had to mix in some anti-Hillary coverage into the mix (despite the fact that Trump was so much worse) just so people might not think "These leftest sources are just as biased as Fox news".
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i agree, i think they did do that. but i also think the billionaire owners that favor trump's policies have also meddled in editorial affairs from time to time as well.
 
Segnosaur said:
It did not matter if Biden dropped out early, dropped out when he did, or stayed in the race until the very end. It did not matter if the candidate was Biden, Harris, or a rotting turnip.

Whomever the democrats could have put forward was better than Stubby McBonespurs, given the fact that Trump was a convicted felon who tried to overthrow democracy in his first time around, who put forward policies that were destructive to the U.S. Any trump supporter trying to shift blame by saying "I might have voted democrat but I didn't like the way Harris was nominated" is just trying to excuse their own racism.
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The problem was Biden was incapable of putting forward a voluble narrative that kept swing voters onside. When it was time for the election they felt no connection with the Democratic party and were just left with bills to pay. It should have been possible to counter the chaotic Trump campaign and a candidate who was seriously flawed.
 
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