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Split Thread DEI in the US

The question is meaningless. What evidence do you have that he submitted the work repeatedly to the same potential publishers or periodicals? Submitting a work "repeatedly" to different publishers or periodicals is what authors often have to do. Remember how Harry Potter was rejected by the first dozen publishers Rowling submitted it to? Did Rowling think the result would change for the thirteenth? That doesn't matter; it did.

If nothing changed "from one year to the next" except the name the author submitted the poem(s) under, then it's reasonable to suspect that the name change is what made the difference in how the publishers reacted to it. We might look for other explanations, such as the occurrence of significant world events that gave the work a new relevance; or perhaps the adoption of a "movement" in academic poetry that the work retroactively typifies. In those cases, the author-name change just before critical acceptance could be just a coincidence. But you haven't suggested any such perspective-altering world events or fortuitous stylistic movements applicable to the case at hand. Nor has anyone else.

Which leaves the question, not why did someone think the result would change, but why DID the result change after the submitter's represented name changed to an Asian female sounding one? Double standards?

Probably. But it's not quite that simple after all. Because the same poem continued to be rejected nine more times after the name change. If we model the process as a fixed 3% random chance of acceptance per submission regardless of the author's name, it's got a 30% chance of being rejected the first 40 times, and a 78% chance of being accepted by the 50th time. Unlikely but not extremely so.

Then there's the nature of the poem itself. It's a lot of musings about primarily Western narratives (Greek mythology, Roman history, evolutionary biology, Adam and Eve) in a European landscape. The narrator looks at bumblebees and flowers and sees symbiotic evolution, not some haiku-like allusion to enlightenment or beauty. It's a nerdy poem. Which makes it more interesting to imagine why an Asian woman would be having these thoughts, than why an ordinary Western dude would. It's possible the poet could have had a similar effect by simply beginning the poem with something like: "Yi-Feng Chou thought, 'Huh! That bumblebee looks ridiculous...'" The point is, in context, the name does affect the meaning of the poem, which makes it invalid to claim that the author's name change was the "only" change to explain the difference (to the extent there was a difference) in how the poem was received.

By the way, IMO, it's not a terrible poem. It's not great either.
Ya, that's a whole lot of nothing. what proof is there it was accepted because he portrayed himself as an Asian woman? As you pointed out, he may not even have been submitting to the same publisher, so how do we know the criteria? How do we not know the poem was selected that time based on the quality of the work vs other submissions?

Just butt hurt whiteboys whining about not getting something they see as a "right"
 
Ya, that's a whole lot of nothing. what proof is there it was accepted because he portrayed himself as an Asian woman? As you pointed out, he may not even have been submitting to the same publisher, so how do we know the criteria? How do we not know the poem was selected that time based on the quality of the work vs other submissions?

Just butt hurt whiteboys whining about not getting something they see as a "right"

As I did indeed point out, because what I wrote was a balanced assessment instead of a mindless repetition of some particular side's agenda, there is no definitive proof but overall the evidence trends that way despite some reservations.

However, the poem's initial publication (in Prairie Schooner) is only a part of the back-story of the real question, which is whether the poem merits its selection for inclusion in the Best American Poetry anthology of 2015. The editor in various public writings acknowledged that his perception of the poet's identity (due to the pseudonym) attracted more of his attention to the poem.

Sure, you can pretend there's nothing to see here. I mean, poetry, amirite? Nobody cares about poetry, except for pop music lyrics. Poetry used to be a part of the shared intellectual life of young and old, but that's dead now, and that couldn't possibly have anything to do with so much of professionally curated poetry being pretentious crap that only has to glance off of some important idea and any actual craftsmanship to make it interesting to read is detrimental.

Meanwhile, MAGA and the Republican Party thank you for all dismissive comments about butthurt white boys. Nice of you to work so hard for their continued success.
 
No, pretending they have any value is what gives those wimps success. They are a bunch of weaklings that need big government to beat up on "others" to make them feel tough. Let them cry. If my calling a weak little white boy a weak little white boy makes someone vote Trump, that means they wanted an excuse to venerate a kiddie diddler.
 
No, pretending they have any value is what gives those wimps success. They are a bunch of weaklings that need big government to beat up on "others" to make them feel tough. Let them cry. If my calling a weak little white boy a weak little white boy makes someone vote Trump, that means they wanted an excuse to venerate a kiddie diddler.
It is weird how expressing your racial animus might make someone dislike your politics.
 
Meanwhile, MAGA and the Republican Party thank you for all dismissive comments about butthurt white boys. Nice of you to work so hard for their continued success.

Yes, as any historian who studies fascists regimes will tell you, their origins can always be traced to someone saying "butthurt white boys" on an obscure internet forum.
 
I see you're back to a doctrinaire reliance on discrete dictionary definitions, rather than acknowledging how such programs are actually instituted and managed in practice.
In this thread there has been a discussion of how such programs are actually "instituted and managed in practice". As a manager involved in hiring for my large institution, I have first hand experience with how DEI is used in the real world. It bears no resemblance to what you, Trausti, and jt512 keep harping on about. It rather seems that you all are relying on false right wing definitions, rather than acknowledging how such programs are actually instituted and managed in practice.
 
In this thread there has been a discussion of how such programs are actually "instituted and managed in practice". As a manager involved in hiring for my large institution, I have first hand experience with how DEI is used in the real world. It bears no resemblance to what you, Trausti, and jt512 keep harping on about. It rather seems that you all are relying on false right wing definitions, rather than acknowledging how such programs are actually instituted and managed in practice.

Fantasies are all the right wing has. They are an ideology of anti-vaxxersim and conspiracy theories.

And as relates to DEI, we are seeing in real time that their opposition to it was never about a belief in merit. We have an administration run by some of the most unqualified, incompetent people on the planet and the country is falling apart because of it, and they don't care because they never believed in the things they claimed to believe in.
 
1 in 6 hiring managers have been told to stop hiring white men, survey finds
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Hardly surprising to read that on a Fox News outlet.

I'm not the one making excuses on why it okay to discriminate based on someone's race or sex.
Yes you are. You're saying Diversity, Equity and Inclusion are evil. You're therefore in favour of discriminating based on someone's race or sex.

Dude, how many threads have been highjacked with Orange-Man-Bad and you pulling that?
The Bad Orange Man is actually relevant to some threads.
 
Yes, I'm saying that DEI is exclusionary. When I state that no one should be discriminated based on race or sex, the response in this thread is to denigrate White males.
Inclusion is exclusionary. Righto.

I don't denigrate white males. I denigrate white supremacy, which the radical far right is promoting by cancelling programmes intended to increase diversity and inclusion.
 
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