Split Thread DEI in the US

[arthwollipot]

In truth, they have to reject disconfirming evidence. That's the nature of fundamentalist faith; disconfirming evidence is heresy. It sorta like how during the summer of love many DEI proponents believed that thousand of young black men were just being gunned down by cops. Not true in the slightest, but boy did they cling that.

It's like they have zero self awareness.

 

[W.D.Clinger]

It's like they have zero self awareness.

Let's not over-generalize. Some of them have 1700% more self-awareness than others.

 

[The_Animus]

In truth, they have to reject disconfirming evidence. That's the nature of fundamentalist faith; disconfirming evidence is heresy. It sorta like how during the summer of love many DEI proponents believed that thousand of young black men were just being gunned down by cops. Not true in the slightest, but boy did they cling that.

You mean like this post. Please provide your evidence that DEI proponents thought thousands of black men were being gunned down by cops during the summer of love.

 

[wareyin]

You mean like this post. Please provide your evidence that DEI proponents thought thousands of black men were being gunned down by cops during the summer of love.

Apropos of nothing, your signature seems nice wise.

 

[Donal]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1903471498037539014

So, he believes he's a lousy poet who can't get by on the merit of his work?

 

[Trausti]

It's like they have zero self awareness.

Oh, you probably believe this, too.

MRI scans reveal impact of racism and poverty on Black children’s brains

 

[Trausti]

So, he believes he's a lousy poet who can't get by on the merit of his work?

You really didn't catch that by changing his name to diversity-exotic the lousy poems were deemed great?

 

[Donal]

I caught that. At least he realizes he sucks.

 

[Trausti]

I caught that. At least he realizes he sucks.

But that's the problem. In the DEI viewpoint, merit and quality are subservient to identity.

 

[arthwollipot]

But that's the problem. In the DEI viewpoint, merit and quality are subservient to identity.

This is a lie.

 

[Trausti]

This is a lie.

No it isn't. The guy had to make up an exotic non-Western name for his lousy poetry to be considered. If DEI didn't prioritize identity over merit, then the identity of the poet wouldn't matter at all.

 

[theprestige]

This is a lie.

I see you're back to a doctrinaire reliance on discrete dictionary definitions, rather than acknowledging how such programs are actually instituted and managed in practice.

 

[arthwollipot]

I see you're back to a doctrinaire reliance on discrete dictionary definitions, rather than acknowledging how such programs are actually instituted and managed in practice.

I've already given examples of how real DEI programmes are actually instituted and managed in practice. The anti-DEI push from the rightist white supremacist authoritarians is cancelling them and doing untold damage.

The rightist, and fake, definition of DEI relies on the default standard for competency being a white man. Anyone else who might be qualified is automatically labelled a "DEI Hire" and thus of less worth than the white man who might be in the same job. You're not complaining that less-qualified minorities are being given opportunities. You're complaining that minorities are being given opportunities at all.

It's a bull ◊◊◊◊ rightist culture war and you're all just poor bloody infantry on the battlefield.

 

[Trausti]

I've already given examples of how real DEI programmes are actually instituted and managed in practice. The anti-DEI push from the rightist white supremacist authoritarians is cancelling them and doing untold damage.

The rightist, and fake, definition of DEI relies on the default standard for competency being a white man. Anyone else who might be qualified is automatically labelled a "DEI Hire" and thus of less worth than the white man who might be in the same job. You're not complaining that less-qualified minorities are being given opportunities. You're complaining that minorities are being given opportunities at all.

It's a bull ◊◊◊◊ rightist culture war and you're all just poor bloody infantry on the battlefield.

Above you said "this is a lie" when pointed out that DEI is all about identity over merit. Then you write this response hyper-focused on identity. Pick a lane, man.

 

[arthwollipot]

Above you said "this is a lie" when pointed out that DEI is all about identity over merit. Then you write this response hyper-focused on identity. Pick a lane, man.

You even quoted my post and you lie about it.

The rightist, and fake, definition of DEI relies on the default standard for competency being a white man. Anyone else who might be qualified is automatically labelled a "DEI Hire" and thus of less worth than the white man who might be in the same job.

 

[Donal]

But that's the problem. In the DEI viewpoint, merit and quality are subservient to identity.

You're asserting the only reason it won this last time is due to the name change.

Why did he submit it multiple times under his own name? Why did he expect a different result year after year? Why did he think it wasn't good enough one year but be good enough the next?

 

[Trausti]

You're asserting the only reason it won this last time is due to the name change.

Why did he submit it multiple times under his own name? Why did he expect a different result year after year? Why did he think it wasn't good enough one year but be good enough the next?

I admire your commitment to keeping the faith.

 

[Donal]

Why can't you answer my question? He submitted the work repeatedly under his name. Why did he think the result would change from one year to the next?

 

[Myriad]

Why can't you answer my question? He submitted the work repeatedly under his name. Why did he think the result would change from one year to the next?

The question is meaningless. What evidence do you have that he submitted the work repeatedly to the same potential publishers or periodicals? Submitting a work "repeatedly" to different publishers or periodicals is what authors often have to do. Remember how Harry Potter was rejected by the first dozen publishers Rowling submitted it to? Did Rowling think the result would change for the thirteenth? That doesn't matter; it did.

If nothing changed "from one year to the next" except the name the author submitted the poem(s) under, then it's reasonable to suspect that the name change is what made the difference in how the publishers reacted to it. We might look for other explanations, such as the occurrence of significant world events that gave the work a new relevance; or perhaps the adoption of a "movement" in academic poetry that the work retroactively typifies. In those cases, the author-name change just before critical acceptance could be just a coincidence. But you haven't suggested any such perspective-altering world events or fortuitous stylistic movements applicable to the case at hand. Nor has anyone else.

Which leaves the question, not why did someone think the result would change, but why DID the result change after the submitter's represented name changed to an Asian female sounding one? Double standards?

Probably. But it's not quite that simple after all. Because the same poem continued to be rejected nine more times after the name change. If we model the process as a fixed 3% random chance of acceptance per submission regardless of the author's name, it's got a 30% chance of being rejected the first 40 times, and a 78% chance of being accepted by the 50th time. Unlikely but not extremely so.

Then there's the nature of the poem itself. It's a lot of musings about primarily Western narratives (Greek mythology, Roman history, evolutionary biology, Adam and Eve) in a European landscape. The narrator looks at bumblebees and flowers and sees symbiotic evolution, not some haiku-like allusion to enlightenment or beauty. It's a nerdy poem. Which makes it more interesting to imagine why an Asian woman would be having these thoughts, than why an ordinary Western dude would. It's possible the poet could have had a similar effect by simply beginning the poem with something like: "Yi-Feng Chou thought, 'Huh! That bumblebee looks ridiculous...'" The point is, in context, the name does affect the meaning of the poem, which makes it invalid to claim that the author's name change was the "only" change to explain the difference (to the extent there was a difference) in how the poem was received.

By the way, IMO, it's not a terrible poem. It's not great either.

 

[The_Animus]

In truth, they have to reject disconfirming evidence. That's the nature of fundamentalist faith; disconfirming evidence is heresy. It sorta like how during the summer of love many DEI proponents believed that thousand of young black men were just being gunned down by cops. Not true in the slightest, but boy did they cling that.

You mean like this post. Please provide your evidence that DEI proponents thought thousands of black men were being gunned down by cops during the summer of love.

Still waiting...