Cancel culture IRL

[johnny karate]

Cancel culture is stifling new writers is a pretty specific claim but it is understandable how it might make some people uncomfortable and cause them to immediately dismiss it on those grounds.

A specific claim would mention, you know... specifics. What we have here is a vague generalization that is again - and please pay close attention because this is the important part - completely unsubstantiated.

This limiting artistic freedom, it's good for society, right ? At least that's what Chairman Mao would tell us.

You keep plowing ahead as if the thing he said was established fact.

What a weird and embarrassing hill to die on.

 

[JoeMorgue]

What a weird and embarrassing hill to die on.

A lot of people are going to have that chiseled on their tombstones.

 

[d4m10n]

Which actors also checked boxes for posting memes associated with anti-Semitism, mocking transgendered people, and promoting dangerous conspiracy theories?

Seriously we're going to go with the idea that frivolous joke pronouns are mocking transgendered people rather than mocking the trend of putting pronouns in bios? Seems like a stretch, but okay. Must be exhausting to work that hard at taking offense.

 

[sarge]

I think this morning that NPR reported a specific instance of an established, popular artists works being canceled in a fashion that might meet the term ‘cancel culture’ as it is used most often.

6 Dr. Sue’s books will no longer be published due to offensive content. I heard the gist of the story on the ride this morning, google shows that most very real news source is now reporting it.

Never having read these specific books, I don’t yet have an opinion on the refusal to print these titles.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I think this morning that NPR reported a specific instance of an established, popular artists works being canceled in a fashion that might meet the term ‘cancel culture’ as it is used most often.

6 Dr. Sue’s books will no longer be published due to offensive content. I heard the gist of the story on the ride this morning, google shows that most very real news source is now reporting it.

Never having read these specific books, I don’t yet have an opinion on the refusal to print these titles.

It's six of his books you've never heard of. The man was prolific. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they were "being cancelled" due to low sales numbers. And if I were cynical I'd say the publishers announced this to boost the sales of those and other books by Seuss. Because you know if you announce "I'm not going to lose more money on publishing a book that nobody's buying that contains drawings of black people looking like gorillas" then a certain segment of Americans will run a mile over broken glass to pay extra for it.

 

[johnny karate]

Seriously we're going to go with the idea that frivolous joke pronouns are mocking transgendered people rather than mocking the trend of putting pronouns in bios? Seems like a stretch, but okay. Must be exhausting to work that hard at taking offense.

In light of the kind of people who usually use this defense, I’m trying to imagine thinking that the “You can’t take you take a joke” argument is anything other than nails-on-the-chalkboard terrible.

You’ve just philosophically aligned yourself with every loudmouth obnoxious douchebag who isn’t nearly as funny as he thinks he is and doesn’t know when to just shut the hell up.

 

[johnny karate]

I think this morning that NPR reported a specific instance of an established, popular artists works being canceled in a fashion that might meet the term ‘cancel culture’ as it is used most often.

6 Dr. Sue’s books will no longer be published due to offensive content. I heard the gist of the story on the ride this morning, google shows that most very real news source is now reporting it.

Never having read these specific books, I don’t yet have an opinion on the refusal to print these titles.

Protip: When you heard fragments of a news story that you think might bolster an argument you want to make, maybe find out the details first before you rush here to announce it. It might save you some embarrassment.

 

[Cavemonster]

I think this morning that NPR reported a specific instance of an established, popular artists works being canceled in a fashion that might meet the term ‘cancel culture’ as it is used most often.

6 Dr. Sue’s books will no longer be published due to offensive content. I heard the gist of the story on the ride this morning, google shows that most very real news source is now reporting it.

Never having read these specific books, I don’t yet have an opinion on the refusal to print these titles.

Clearly Dr. Seuss himself hasn't been cancelled. For one, he's no longer living, and for another, six out of around 60 of his books are being taken out of print.

I'm not a publishing insider, but I'd be surprised if many authors had that many books in constant print so many years after their death with regularity.

The decision seems to have come from a long and thorough internal review by the publisher, not a sudden caving to social media mobs. I'd say it's probably more comparable to Disney deciding not to sell "Song of the South".

If evaluating which older media to publish based on how it will be perceived by newer norms is "cancel culture" then it's again not particularly new and I don't find it too alarming.

 

[johnny karate]

Delete

 

[Cavemonster]

It's six of his books you've never heard of. The man was prolific. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they were "being cancelled" due to low sales numbers. And if I were cynical I'd say the publishers announced this to boost the sales of those and other books by Seuss. Because you know if you announce "I'm not going to lose more money on publishing a book that nobody's buying that contains drawings of black people looking like gorillas" then a certain segment of Americans will run a mile over broken glass to pay extra for it.

I will say that "If I ran the Zoo" is not as obscure as some of the other titles and has been a standard in most classrooms I visit. So I would be surprised if that one were cancelled because of low sales.

It's not at the top of the Seuss blockbuster list, but it's a solidly popular title.

 

[Stout]

Even if he is right the genre he is talking about is only a sliver of published works.

That aside what evidence does he have - it seems to be nothing but an assertion?

But yet again not sure what is meant to be done about this, force publishers to publish books, criminalise certain types of criticism of the “literary” genre? Plus what has this got to do with so-called “cancel culture”.

One would think that a Nobel prize winning author would have a tad bit more insight into and familiarity with the current state of the publishing industry than your average laypreson. No ?

What do you want done about it ? If you're happy with only certain beople being able to write certain things from certain viewpoints then so be it. Artistic expression be dammed, this is your slot and don't you dare stray out of it.

Cancel culture is, literally, in the title of the article.

 

[d4m10n]

You’ve just philosophically aligned yourself with every loudmouth obnoxious douchebag who isn’t nearly as funny as he thinks he is and doesn’t know when to just shut the hell up.

"Cancel culture based on ideology isn't a thing, but joking about pronouns is among the reasons someone ought to be unemployable in Hollywood."

(h/t JoeMorgue for the format)

 

[johnny karate]

I will say that "If I ran the Zoo" is not as obscure as some of the other titles and has been a standard in most classrooms I visit. So I would be surprised if that one were cancelled because of low sales.

It's not at the top of the Seuss blockbuster list, but it's a solidly popular title.

The thing is, these books aren’t being banned or taken out of circulation. The publisher has just decided to not print any more new ones.

The McRib being discontinued is more a “cancellation” than this is.

 

[Cavemonster]

One would think that a Nobel prize winning author would have a tad bit more insight into and familiarity with the current state of the publishing industry than your average laypreson. No ?

What do you want done about it ? If you're happy with only certain beople being able to write certain things from certain viewpoints then so be it. Artistic expression be dammed, this is your slot and don't you dare stray out of it.

Cancel culture is, literally, in the title of the article.

The whole idea could be easily discussed as "Authors don't feel comfortable tackling things that might meet with public disapproval".

I don't think we ever had a golden age where that was not the case.

 

[johnny karate]

One would think that a Nobel prize winning author would have a tad bit more insight into and familiarity with the current state of the publishing industry than your average laypreson. No ?

What do you want done about it ? If you're happy with only certain beople being able to write certain things from certain viewpoints then so be it. Artistic expression be dammed, this is your slot and don't you dare stray out of it.

Cancel culture is, literally, in the title of the article.

Oh, he won a Nobel prize? Well, then everything he says must be true because that’s exactly how good argumentation works.

 

[Stout]

A specific claim would mention, you know... specifics. What we have here is a vague generalization that is again - and please pay close attention because this is the important part - completely unsubstantiated.

You want to go 8 pages on the meaning of the word specific ? Knock yourself out. Anybody who's not playing silly games can tell what that article is about.

just come out an say it, you support this type of self censorship and limiting who can write about what there is an upside too. It's way more environmentally friendly to prevent the wrong books being written by the wrong people than having to burn them later.

 

[Stout]

The whole idea could be easily discussed as "Authors don't feel comfortable tackling things that might meet with public disapproval".

I don't think we ever had a golden age where that was not the case.

That's one way of looking at it but what Kazuo Ishiguro is talking about is.

Sir Kazuo, 66, said they were avoiding writing from viewpoints outside their own immediate experiences for fear of being cancelled by an 'anonymous lynch mob' online.

It's not really things that might meet with public disapproval that are the thrust of his message but the genetic makeup of the authors themselves.

 

[Stout]

Oh, he won a Nobel prize? Well, then everything he says must be true because that’s exactly how good argumentation works.

Do you disagree that he might have more insight into the industry that he built his career on than the average layperson ?

 

[johnny karate]

Do you disagree that he might have more insight into the industry that he built his career on than the average layperson ?

Certainly. That doesn’t render every claim he makes automatically true.

Again, I have to laugh that this is the hill you want to die on.

 

[johnny karate]

You want to go 8 pages on the meaning of the word specific ? Knock yourself out. Anybody who's not playing silly games can tell what that article is about.

just come out an say it, you support this type of self censorship and limiting who can write about what there is an upside too. It's way more environmentally friendly to prevent the wrong books being written by the wrong people than having to burn them later.

I’m just going to call Poe at this point. This is too ludicrously bad to be a genuine argument.