Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
Why not? It's not like they have to obey the laws of physics. Imaginary things can do whatever you imagine!
Ed A call for new open-minded research on psychic phenomena
- Thread starter Myriad
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Axxman300
Philosopher
I just love when believers make a declarative statement about spirits as if there is a mountain of evidence to back it up. A thing can't be set in stone on Tuesday but not on Wednesday.
Nay_Sayer
I say nay!
Even stranger the spirits always seem to lose power or their connection to our world the very moment a reasonable control is introduced in testing them.
What are the odds?
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
If we can't gain access to it or interact with it, what function does it serve? Why postulate its existence at all if it can't interact with "our" (by which I mean "the") universe?
Edited by xjx388:
Removed moderated content
There's another experiment that doctors could do on people who hear voices. A regular course of chlorpromazine. Funnily enough, doctors have done this experiment, and they have found that in many cases, the voices go away! If they don't, they have found that perphenazine or thioproperazine do.
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Scorpion
Illuminator
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- Feb 28, 2013
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We are not normally intended to interact with it, the spirit world is the real world which we come from to learn lessons of life in the material world. When we die we return to the spirit world.
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Mongrel
Begging for Scraps
SusanB-M1
Incurable Optimist
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- Jul 17, 2006
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- 3,766
I think I'll just join in here. Anything that actually happens, whether it is a surgeon wielding a scalpel, or a star exploding into a supernova, or a person visiting Australia for the first time happening to meet someone they once knew in Liechtenstein forty years before, is natural. No undetectable, invisible, immeasurable force has been involved.
Okay, I'll now go back to reading!
Edit: natral: can be explained ; never a need for a paranormal explanation
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LongFuzzy
Critical Thinker
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- Apr 27, 2005
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- 401
Axxman300
Philosopher
This a cop-out.
Why would spirits open drawers, throw coffee cups, and move furniture "consistently", but when the Jay Utahs of the world show up to investigate nothing happens?
Reddit is full of spirits interacting with the living, so one of two things is true: the living can interact with the spirit world, or maybe folks aren't being honest.
You can't have it both ways.
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
So the "spirit world" is the "real world" but it is not possible to learn anything in it? Really, scorpion?
You mean when a 3 year old child is kidnapped, raped and beheaded dies?
It's beyond a cop-out - if it were true we wouldn't know about this spirit world!
Cosmic Yak
Philosopher
That's odd, because earlier you said that the human nervous system is wired so as to be able to detect 'psychic energy':
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=13506369#post13506369
Now, I do not in any way claim to be able to understand this concept of the spirit world, as you explain/describe it, but surely psychic energy is a manifestation of the spirit world? If we are hardwired to sense it, then surely we must be allowed to interact with it? Otherwise, why build us this way? Right?
xjx388
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2010
- Messages
- 11,392
Not only that, the nervous system senses things in the physical universe, so whatever the spirit world is fundamentally, it has effects in the real world that we can sense. Unless the idea is that the nervous system of some very sensitive people can also detect non-physical things . . .which puts us right back at the unfalsifiable and impossible to detect world that may as well not exist.
Scorpion
Illuminator
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- 3,812
I didn't say it is not possible to learn anything in the spirit world, I said we come to earth to learn life's lessons. Here we are on our own making choices, but in the spirit world the reality of Gods existence is obvious. This means people are constrained in their actions. Because they know actions have consequences
What lesson does the 3 year old child kidnapped off the street, raped by multiple men and finally beheaded learn?
Scorpion's odd dogma aside, I can't see a way to open minds on paranormal research and testing without brains falling out as a requirement.
One has to ignore logic, reason, common other methods of doing the same and ultimately ones credibility.
And then the creative accounting when it comes time to tally up hits from misses.
Not much has changed since Houdini was trying to expose the paranormal as frauds a century ago.
He undid the tricks, played the psychology games and the entire of the willing gullible folks asked " so? We don't care.''
It's a lot slicker a show now and high tech can make it like magic smooth but it's still tricks.
It comes down to if you love a good show or not. I am willing to let a good illusionist take up a few hours of my time. Because it's fun to not know how exactly Shin Lim does those card tricks so smoothly. He is good.
But I won't be sending money to Jose de Los Milagros to lift a curse he says someone put on me. Even if he gives an instant discount of 300 pesos from 3,000 pesos.
And there are a lot of his type working the masses to make a living. All he needs is that I have a credit card and buy his BS story.
One has to ignore logic, reason, common other methods of doing the same and ultimately ones credibility.
And then the creative accounting when it comes time to tally up hits from misses.
Not much has changed since Houdini was trying to expose the paranormal as frauds a century ago.
He undid the tricks, played the psychology games and the entire of the willing gullible folks asked " so? We don't care.''
It's a lot slicker a show now and high tech can make it like magic smooth but it's still tricks.
It comes down to if you love a good show or not. I am willing to let a good illusionist take up a few hours of my time. Because it's fun to not know how exactly Shin Lim does those card tricks so smoothly. He is good.
But I won't be sending money to Jose de Los Milagros to lift a curse he says someone put on me. Even if he gives an instant discount of 300 pesos from 3,000 pesos.
And there are a lot of his type working the masses to make a living. All he needs is that I have a credit card and buy his BS story.
Axxman300
Philosopher
There is no consistent logic in this statement when compared to your other statement that the spirit world is the real world.
Where is the logic of a being who lives in a non-corporeal world to learn life lessons here when their other-world existence should, if your claim is correct, make learning instantaneous. Plus if god is over on that side of the fence why would so much effort be wasted? If god really that dumb? Why can't god just GIVE THEM KNOWLEDGE instead? He did it in the Garden of Eden, why the circle of life-jerk?
Axxman300
Philosopher
The problem with spiritualism as it relates to psychic research is that spiritualists skip all the steps and dive into mysticism without questioning anything relevant. It's like when San Francisco public works moved a cement parking barrier into a remote spot in Golden Gate Park for storage only to return for it a year later to find out people were worshiping it.
Skeptical Greg
Agave Wine Connoisseur
I would say the bigger problem would be going to the expense of moving it..
Sad that such a thing would be approved by a city government..
Sad that such a thing would be approved by a city government..