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Merged Peace President invades Venezuela,/U.S. Forces Capture Maduro

johnny karate said:
I can't decide if you believe these lies or just expect us to.

Trump says US will 'run' Venezuela and 'fix oil infrastructure'
Click to expand...
Just to be clear, this part...

Maduro stole the election in 2024 from the opposition, who won at least 70% of the votes​

... is actually the truth.

www.journalofdemocracy.org

How Maduro Stole Venezuela’s Vote | Journal of Democracy

Nicolás Maduro brazenly stole Venezuela’s 2024 presidential election, despite a free, fair, and transparent ballot count that showed a clear opposition victory. Why would an autocrat want to maintain…
www.journalofdemocracy.org www.journalofdemocracy.org
 
from what i understand maduro's vp was sworn in and in power, and trump has no interest in the democratically popular candidate and claims the us will run the country.

so, this is going to be a huge cluster ◊◊◊◊. going to go ahead and call that one now.
 
Ziggurat said:
This is a stupid argument. Putin did not need any justification for invading Ukraine. He had none, but did it anyway.

China also needs no justification for invading Taiwan. That isn't what is preventing them.
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Really? Putin and China can say the US did it too, do you think there's no propaganda to milk and to back them up in this scenario?
 
Under the Gulf of Mexico is a huge oil deposit. As it gets emptied the edge toward Mexico became dry causing Mexico to invest in deep water drill rigs to get a share.

The US and Venezuela are the biggest draws on it and during the Bush Jr year it was cheaper for the US to buy it from Venezuela than run its own platforms. Despite a heap of hate going both ways big oil was busy hauling it to Texas as fast as possible. Thus literally supporting the very dictator they "hated". Later US presidents did too because it kept US petroleum prices in control. Including trimps first term.

That was reported ten years ago in Mexican news. The shallow water rigs Mexico owns are pretty much done now.

Trimp just eliminated the middle man. If oil money is the end game this will do absolutely nothing to restore democracy or wealth to Venezuela. It will dry them of it faster than Maduro did.
They're screwed worse if this goes far.

This is not good. I am not sure of a good plan but anything to do with trimp and his goons isn't it.
 
There's one thing we have learned from all this.
The Chinese 'Anti Stealth ' radar systems supplied to Venezuela didn't detect ◊◊◊◊ all! and the Russian AA systems didn't engage a single one of the hundred or do US aircraft involved.
 
Lukraak_Sisser said:
Oh sure, it is.
But is one anti democratic strongman replacing an other anti democratic strongman with his own puppet actually an improvement?
Click to expand...

MY ONLY CONCERN was with what @johnny karate posted - i.e. he implied @jt512's statement that Maduro stole the election is a lie....

jt512 said:
Maduro stole the election in 2024 from the opposition, who won at least 70% of the votes. Maybe now that the U.S. has deposed him, the Venezuelan people will, for the first time in more than two decades of living under criminal dictators, actually be able to decide for themselves.
Click to expand...
johnny karate said:
I can't decide if you believe these lies or just expect us to.
Click to expand...

...it is not. That bit needed correction.

Let me make this clear - I do not support what The Fat Orange Turd did. It does nothing to advance the welfare of ordinary Venezuelans and it was definitely illegal - contrary to International Law and the UN Charter. However, it is possible for two different things to be true at the same time...

1. It is true that the removal of Maduro, in and of itself, is a good thing.
2. It is true that the way it was achieved is a bad thing.

This is the centrist position, but the problem with the tribal nature of politics at this time is that all the cultists retreat into their entrenched positions and won't budge - the left wing cultists argue that both 1 & 2 are bad (or rather that 2 being bad makes 1 bad), the right wing cultists argue that both 1 & 2 are good (or rather that 1 being good makes 2 good). When this happens, the truth & the facts become casualties. The cultists on both sides need to recognize those truths & facts as truths even if it conflicts with their narratives.
 
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Andy_Ross said:
There's one thing we have learned from all this.
The Chinese 'Anti Stealth ' radar systems supplied to Venezuela didn't detect ◊◊◊◊ all! and the Russian AA systems didn't engage a single one of the hundred or do US aircraft involved.
Click to expand...
Or, it would mean the people charged with operating them chose not to do so.
 
Andy_Ross said:
Cuba beware.

WELKER: Is the Cuban government the Trump administration's next target?

MARCO RUBIO: Well, the Cuban government is a huge problem. Yeah.

WELKER: Is that a yes?

RUBIO: I think they're in a lot of trouble, yes

https://twitter.com/x/status/2007836775360745944
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I've been waiting 350+ posts for someone to get to this.

The economy mavens here must not like Max, as there's no mention of UNFTR on the board, but I'm leaning toward his take on what's behind this...

Regardless of what Trump's been convinced is the reasoning, and going with the idea that at under $60/bbl for our own "light sweet" crude, meaning their "heavy sour" isn't worth the billions to get re-involved there, a remaining possible motivation is Lil' Marco's lifelong hard-on to exact regime change in Cuba.

And look at that... it's a twofer. 😡
 
smartcooky said:
MY ONLY CONCERN was with what @johnny karate posted - i.e. he implied @jt512's statement that Maduro stole the election is a lie....




...it is not. That bit needed correction.

Let me make this clear - I do not support what The Fat Orange Turd did. It does nothing to advance the welfare of ordinary Venezuelans and it was definitely illegal - contrary to International Law and the UN Charter. However, it is possible for two different things to be true at the same time...

1. It is true that the removal of Maduro, in and of itself, is a good thing.
2. It is true that the way it was achieved is a bad thing.

This is the centrist position, but the problem with the tribal nature of politics at this time is that all the cultists retreat into their entrenched positions and won't budge - the left wing cultists argue that both 1 & 2 are bad (or rather that 2 being bad makes 1 bad), the right wing cultists argue that both 1 & 2 are good (or rather that 1 being good makes 2 good). When this happens, the truth & the facts become casualties. The cultists on both sides need to recognize those truths & facts as truths even if it conflicts with their narratives.
Click to expand...

Could be wrong, but I suspect what Johnny meant was just the idea they'd get a free and fair election... under the auspices of Trump.
 
smartcooky said:
Just to be clear, this part...

Maduro stole the election in 2024 from the opposition, who won at least 70% of the votes​

... is actually the truth.

www.journalofdemocracy.org

How Maduro Stole Venezuela’s Vote | Journal of Democracy

Nicolás Maduro brazenly stole Venezuela’s 2024 presidential election, despite a free, fair, and transparent ballot count that showed a clear opposition victory. Why would an autocrat want to maintain…
www.journalofdemocracy.org www.journalofdemocracy.org
Click to expand...

Fair point. I was referring to everything that came after. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
 
smartcooky said:
Probably, but that wasn't clear. The way he used the word "lies" implies they were all lies, and that simply isn't so.
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Jim_MDP's suspicion is right and the record has been corrected. The "lies" were merely a reference to everything that comes from the Trump administration to rationalize their illegal invasion.
 
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dirtywick said:
from what i understand maduro's vp was sworn in and in power, and trump has no interest in the democratically popular candidate and claims the us will run the country.

so, this is going to be a huge cluster ◊◊◊◊. going to go ahead and call that one now.
Click to expand...
Nooo, it's far too soon. You gotta let 'em cook, you know? The proper time to make conclusions will be when it's too late to do anything about it.
 
p0lka said:
Really? Putin and China can say the US did it too, do you think there's no propaganda to milk and to back them up in this scenario?
Click to expand...
Oh, I'm sure they'll try to milk that propaganda, just like I'm sure many here will play along with that propoganda.

But it won't change what they decide to do, because what they decide to do will be determined by raw power, not what excuses they can make.
 
johnny karate said:
We've come so far from you praising Trump as anti-war. I remember when it was number one on your list of reasons to vote for him.
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Am I wrong? Did he get us into war during his first term?

Nope. I was correct about that.

Are we in a war now? Not really. You're worried we might get into a war because of this, but this ain't war yet. Just like the strike on Iran wasn't really war either. There was a lot of fear that our strike on Iran would turn into a war, but it didn't. The fears of that were misplaced.
johnny karate said:
If there's one consistent principle of MAGA, it's having no principles.
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You have no principles other than hostility to anything not hard left.
 
Andy_Ross said:
There's one thing we have learned from all this.
The Chinese 'Anti Stealth ' radar systems supplied to Venezuela didn't detect ◊◊◊◊ all! and the Russian AA systems didn't engage a single one of the hundred or do US aircraft involved.
Click to expand...
Or perhaps the US military got messages to the right people in the Venezuelan military explaining that any defensive actions by them would be treated to overwhelming unpleasantness, and it might be better for everyone if they appeared to be taken by surprise as token attacks would be made, and then nobody need get hurt, the inevitable would happen anyway and at the end of it they could still have a military and thus a career.
 
Lukraak_Sisser said:
Oh sure, it is.
But is one anti democratic strongman replacing an other anti democratic strongman with his own puppet actually an improvement?
Click to expand...
I'm sure the chubby little bastard will use the same tactics come 2026 and 2028. Heck, he might even hire Maduro as a consultant. I was going to say secretly, but he always blabbers about everything on Xitter, so I'm sure he'd be bragging about his secret election fixer from Venezuela before long.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Or perhaps the US military got messages to the right people in the Venezuelan military explaining that any defensive actions by them would be treated to overwhelming unpleasantness, and it might be better for everyone if they appeared to be taken by surprise as token attacks would be made, and then nobody need get hurt, the inevitable would happen anyway and at the end of it they could still have a military and thus a career.
Click to expand...
Apparently the Russians are claiming that we bought off the Venezuelan military because it's so corrupt. Not a completely far fetched idea.

But it raises the question, since they claim the Ukrainians are corrupt, why they didn't just buy off the Ukrainian military. Do they think that's not sportsmanlike?
 
smartcooky said:
Just to be clear, this part...

Maduro stole the election in 2024 from the opposition, who won at least 70% of the votes​

... is actually the truth.

www.journalofdemocracy.org

How Maduro Stole Venezuela’s Vote | Journal of Democracy

Nicolás Maduro brazenly stole Venezuela’s 2024 presidential election, despite a free, fair, and transparent ballot count that showed a clear opposition victory. Why would an autocrat want to maintain…
www.journalofdemocracy.org www.journalofdemocracy.org
Click to expand...
Don't think that was ever in dispute.

Question is: Will Trump put the winner of that election in government in Venezuela? Because she is the one who stole his Noble Piss Prize.
 
Ziggurat said:
Am I wrong? Did he get us into war during his first term?

Nope. I was correct about that.

Are we in a war now? Not really. You're worried we might get into a war because of this, but this ain't war yet. Just like the strike on Iran wasn't really war either. There was a lot of fear that our strike on Iran would turn into a war, but it didn't. The fears of that were misplaced.

You have no principles other than hostility to anything not hard left.
Click to expand...
This is where you show your US exceptionalist hypocrisy.

Both actions WERE acts of war. They just were acts of war against countries unable to strike back.
Had either action happened on US soil against a US target you'd be on the forefront shouting how the evil foreigners should be crushed for daring to hurt US citizens.

I get that you follow the might is right and the US is special so gets a free pass policy from the MAGA cult, but at least be honest about it.

They were police actions in the same way that Putin is doing a police action in Ukraine.
 
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