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Wow, UK has lost freedom of speech

Andy_Ross said:
Trump to make all foreign tourists provide five years of social media history before entering US

www.lbc.co.uk

Trump to make all foreign tourists provide five years of social media history before entering US | LBC

The proposed social-media requirement would apply to all visitors, regardless of whether or not they need a visa.
www.lbc.co.uk www.lbc.co.uk
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As usual, The Fat Orange Prolapsed Anus doesn't think beyond the next "dumb as a cinder block" idea that pops into his head.
Family of four going on trip US. Two kids 6 and 10... where is five years of social media records goung to come from?
 
Darat said:
In the judgement they specifically address the heckler's veto, saying that courts should ensure they do not in effect apply the heckler's veto because of a violent reaction from someone else. That someone becomes angry because of what someone else has the freedom of expression to say does not mean a breach the peace has occured.
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This purported protection from the heckler's veto has been rather... selectively... applied over the last decade, wouldn't you say? There's certainly been a lack of concern about protecting female groups from violence and intimidation.
 
smartcooky said:
As usual, The Fat Orange Prolapsed Anus doesn't think beyond the next "dumb as a cinder block" idea that pops into his head.
Family of four going on trip US. Two kids 6 and 10... where is five years of social media records goung to come from?
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The volume of stupid things proposed by Trump is so large that I don't even know how to process it at this point.
 
smartcooky said:
As usual, The Fat Orange Prolapsed Anus doesn't think beyond the next "dumb as a cinder block" idea that pops into his head.
Family of four going on trip US. Two kids 6 and 10... where is five years of social media records goung to come from?
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...or Australians under the age of 21.
 
Emily's Cat said:
This purported protection from the heckler's veto has been rather... selectively... applied over the last decade, wouldn't you say? There's certainly been a lack of concern about protecting female groups from violence and intimidation.
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I would have to look at your evidence.
 
Elaedith said:
It's worse than that. He actually said that the fact that somebody knows that burning the Quran is likely to provoke a violent response is what makes burning the Quran arguably a hate crime.
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not a hate crime; but behaviour likely to provoke a breach of the peace. If you do something provocative, that can be a crime, but not a hate crime.

It is worth remembering that until recently (2008) blasphemy was a crime in England. So christians didn't have to claim something was a hate crime blasphemy against the Christian god was simply a crime.
 
Planigale said:
not a hate crime; but behaviour likely to provoke a breach of the peace. If you do something provocative, that can be a crime, but not a hate crime.
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If you do it with intent to provoke it is at the very least arguably a hate crime.
Planigale said:
It is worth remembering that until recently (2008) blasphemy was a crime in England. So christians didn't have to claim something was a hate crime blasphemy against the Christian god was simply a crime.
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There weren't a lot of prosecutions for it though.
 
In the latest episode of Skeptics With a K, Mike Hall talks about the DEI Woke War on Christmas, based on a tweet some guy made with a photo of Tesco's "Evergreen Tree" saying something like "It's a Christmas tree. Tesco's is afraid to say Christmas because of woke!" He then goes on to describe his trip to Tesco in which he is bombarded with Christmas merchandise, Christmas music, Christmas decorations and the word "Christmas" on everything that had a flat surface on which it could be slapped.

Episode #445 | Skeptics with a K | Merseyside Skeptics Society

<p>Mike looks at stories about Tesco removing Christmas from products to avoid causing offence, and Marsh has an encounter with a fan of Joe Rogan on the train home.</p><p>Sign up for the Skeptics with a K Patreon at <a...
www.merseysideskeptics.org.uk www.merseysideskeptics.org.uk
 
One example is the claim that Tesco has removed the word Christmas from packs of mince pies. They have never had the word Christmas on them, no one calls them Christmas mince pies, Tesco in its one hundred years has never put Christmas on its mince pies.
 
Planigale said:
not a hate crime; but behaviour likely to provoke a breach of the peace. If you do something provocative, that can be a crime, but not a hate crime.

It is worth remembering that until recently (2008) blasphemy was a crime in England. So christians didn't have to claim something was a hate crime blasphemy against the Christian god was simply a crime.
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And as the appeal court stated what he did was protected by his right to freedom of expression, regardless of whether that provoked someone or not.
 
Darat said:
One example is the claim that Tesco has removed the word Christmas from packs of mince pies. They have never had the word Christmas on them, no one calls them Christmas mince pies, Tesco in its one hundred years has never put Christmas on its mince pies.
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Yup, the "Christmas" is redundant. I'd argue that including it would be implying that Christmas is less special as it needs the descriptive noun.

One doesn't usually talk about "The Roman Catholic Pope" but one might talk about "the Coptic Pope" because the Roman Catholic church is so much more prominent
 
Darat said:
One example is the claim that Tesco has removed the word Christmas from packs of mince pies. They have never had the word Christmas on them, no one calls them Christmas mince pies, Tesco in its one hundred years has never put Christmas on its mince pies.
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That is in fact one of the examples explicitly mentioned in the show. Tesco's response was "well, we're just telling people what's in the box".

Also, there was one probable bot tweeting "Tesco isn't saying Christmas any more" with a photo of the boxed tree sitting on a stand WITH A BIG SIGN SAYING CHRISTMAS TREES on it.
 
There is literally an entire section on its website for Christmas trees. However, I notice that they have bowed to the wokies and instead of saying "Arrives before Christmas" they have replaced it with "Arrives before insignificant and arbitrary date of 25th December". This is an outrage! I am cancelling my BBC licence fee this very instance!

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Freedom of speech

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
If Network NEWSCASTS, and their Late Night Shows, are almost 100% Negative to President Donald J. Trump, MAGA, and the Republican Party, shouldn't their very valuable Broadcast Licenses be terminated? I say, YES!
 
Andy_Ross said:
The US has imposed sanctions on British citizen Claire Melford for being an "agent of the global censorship-industrial complex"

Melford, who leads the monitoring website Global Disinformation Index, is now banned from entering the US

https://twitter.com/x/status/2003589105473540538
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Who would have thought that bigoted liars would object to someone fact checking and calling out hate speech.
 
Looks like the UK hasn't lost Freedon of Speech after all, if their decisions to let this vile piece of human scum into the UK is anything to go by

Alaa Abd el-Fattah

www.theguardian.com

British-Egyptian activist Alaa Abd el-Fattah arrives in UK after travel ban lifted

Family say campaigner, who has a son in Brighton, will be able to travel freely between UK and Cairo months after his release from Egyptian jail
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Here is what Kier Starmer said about his return to the UK

https://twitter.com/x/status/2004603692197036322

Transcript for those who cannot see this X post

I’m delighted that Alaa Abd El-Fattah is back in the UK and has been reunited with his loved ones, who must be feeling profound relief.I want to pay tribute to Alaa’s family, and to all those that have worked and campaigned for this moment.Alaa's case has been a top priority for my government since we came to office. I’m grateful to President Sisi for his decision to grant the pardon.​

Now, here are just a few samples of El-Fattah's Social Media history

Alaa-Abd-El-Fattah.jpg


Should this scummy individual really have been given a British Passport in 2021 with a history of incitement to violence like this. El Fattah's rhetoric is an order of magnitude worse that anything British citizens have been arrested jailed for saying.

I can't wait to see how the leftie contingent here are going to spin this into a good thing, and spin Starmer into a good light over this.
 
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arthwollipot said:
Well, it does kind of undermine your rightie fearmongering conspiracy theory that the UK has lost freedom of speech.
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1. Dodging the issue again I see!

2. No, it doesn't, but what it does do is show that certain members of the leftie UK government are very selective about what speech is free. Obviously, inciting people to kill Jews, Zionists, white males and policemen is perfectly acceptable, while inciting people to kill immigrants will get you a 31 month jail sentence.
 
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smartcooky said:
2. No, it doesn't, but what it does do is show that certain members of the leftie UK government are very selective about what speech is free. Obviously, inciting people to kill Jews, Zionists, white males and policemen is perfectly acceptable, while inciting people to kill immigrants will get you a 31 month jail sentence.
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I don't know what you want, smartcooky.

I assumed that you would want the principle of freedom of speech to be upheld consistently, like I do, which is why I oppose arresting people who write nasty stuff about trans people, like Graham Linehan, or the guy who taught his dog to do a Nazi salute, or for elderly people who hold placards saying they support Palestine Action. (I notice you still have no defence of the latter except to repeat the word that support of Palestine Action is "proscribed" which really means nothing other than "forbidden" or "illegal", thus you support all speech except that which is forbidden or illegal which makes a mockery of the concept of freedom of speech).

However, it seems to me that you are trying to have things both ways. You are extremely upset and agitated about people who prosecuted for inciting people to kill immigrants, which to my mind is really pushing the free-speech defence, while apoplectic when it comes to this guy saying similar things. If you find them both abhorrent and not protected speech then say so and we can agree that it is not a free speech issue.

Instead you are back to your typical tribal denunciations of the "lefties" rather than a discussion of principles.
 
smartcooky said:
Looks like the UK hasn't lost Freedon of Speech after all, if their decisions to let this vile piece of human scum into the UK is anything to go by

Alaa Abd el-Fattah

www.theguardian.com

British-Egyptian activist Alaa Abd el-Fattah arrives in UK after travel ban lifted

Family say campaigner, who has a son in Brighton, will be able to travel freely between UK and Cairo months after his release from Egyptian jail
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Here is what Kier Starmer said about his return to the UK

https://twitter.com/x/status/2004603692197036322

Transcript for those who cannot see this X post

I’m delighted that Alaa Abd El-Fattah is back in the UK and has been reunited with his loved ones, who must be feeling profound relief.I want to pay tribute to Alaa’s family, and to all those that have worked and campaigned for this moment.Alaa's case has been a top priority for my government since we came to office. I’m grateful to President Sisi for his decision to grant the pardon.​

Now, here are just a few samples of El-Fattah's Social Media history
Click to expand...

smartcooky said:
Looks like the UK hasn't lost Freedon of Speech after all, if their decisions to let this vile piece of human scum into the UK is anything to go by

Alaa Abd el-Fattah

www.theguardian.com

British-Egyptian activist Alaa Abd el-Fattah arrives in UK after travel ban lifted

Family say campaigner, who has a son in Brighton, will be able to travel freely between UK and Cairo months after his release from Egyptian jail
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Here is what Kier Starmer said about his return to the UK

https://twitter.com/x/status/2004603692197036322

Transcript for those who cannot see this X post

I’m delighted that Alaa Abd El-Fattah is back in the UK and has been reunited with his loved ones, who must be feeling profound relief.I want to pay tribute to Alaa’s family, and to all those that have worked and campaigned for this moment.Alaa's case has been a top priority for my government since we came to office. I’m grateful to President Sisi for his decision to grant the pardon.​

Now, here are just a few samples of El-Fattah's Social Media history

Alaa-Abd-El-Fattah.jpg


Should this scummy individual really have been given a British Passport in 2021 with a history of incitement to violence like this. El Fattah's rhetoric is an order of magnitude worse that anything British citizens have been arrested jailed for saying.

I can't wait to see how the leftie contingent here are going to spin this into a good thing, and spin Starmer into a good light over this.
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Shouldn't the question be asked of the supporters of the right wing British government that granted him British citizenship if you think he shouldn't have been granted British citizenship because of things he said?

However I am at a loss as to why you are bringing this up as an example of how Britain has lost/losing freedom of speech. Is your post meant to be ironic given he was imprisoned in Egypt because he spoke out against the Egyptian state's use of torture i.e. an example of a country's lack of freedom of speech?
 
smartcooky said:
1. Dodging the issue again I see!

2. No, it doesn't, but what it does do is show that certain members of the leftie UK government are very selective about what speech is free. Obviously, inciting people to kill Jews, Zionists, white males and policemen is perfectly acceptable, while inciting people to kill immigrants will get you a 31 month jail sentence.
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He was granted British citizenship by a right wing government.

Inciting anyone to kill anyone is in the UK a criminal offence to which there is no defence of freedom of expression.
 
Darat said:
Shouldn't the question be asked of the supporters of the right wing British government that granted him British citizenship if you think he shouldn't have been granted British citizenship because of things he said?
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Indeed!

IMO, he should never have been granted British citizenship (by the barely-right wing Tories) given his clear record of incitement to violence and killing

The current government should have been doing everything they could to strip him of his British citizenship, not doing everything they could to bring him to your country.

Darat said:
However I am at a loss as to why you are bringing this up as an example of how Britain has lost/losing freedom of speech.
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Oh, but of course you are :rolleyes:

Darat said:
Is your post meant to be ironic given he was imprisoned in Egypt because he spoke out against the Egyptian state's use of torture i.e. an example of a country's lack of freedom of speech?
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I thought that was abundantly clear. This event has pointed up the obvious double standard when it comes to hate speech in your country.

On the one hand you have Lucy Connolly, who makes a SINGLE post in anger in a response to the Southport riots and the cold blooded murder of three little girls aged six, seven and nine. She thinks better of it and deletes it quickly. But not quickly enough - the ever watchful UK Thought Police know about it. She is arrested and charged with the offence of inciting racial hatred. Gets a 31 month prison sentence.

On the other hand you have Alaa Abd El-Fattah, posting dozens of posts over a period of four years, inciting and indeed, encouraging the murder of Jews, while males and policemen. Never regrets posting any of them - some of them are still up. These are in plain view of the UK Thought Police.... what happened to him? Nothing! Nada! El Zippo! He gets a free pass.

If you don't see this as a doubke standard, then I fell sorry your you.

Darat said:
He was granted British citizenship by a right wing government.
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And yet...
"I’m delighted that Alaa Abd El-Fattah is back in the UK and has been reunited with his loved ones, who must be feeling profound relief.I want to pay tribute to Alaa’s family, and to all those that have worked and campaigned for this moment.Alaa's case has been a top priority "
- Kier Starmer

Darat said:
Inciting anyone to kill anyone is in the UK a criminal offence to which there is no defence of freedom of expression.
Click to expand...
And yet...
 
smartcooky said:
1. Dodging the issue again I see!

2. No, it doesn't, but what it does do is show that certain members of the leftie UK government are very selective about what speech is free. Obviously, inciting people to kill Jews, Zionists, white males and policemen is perfectly acceptable, while inciting people to kill immigrants will get you a 31 month jail sentence.
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To be pedantic none of his posts called for killing Jews. Not all Israelis are Jews*. Not all Zionists are Jews*, not all colonialists are Jews. Not all Police are Jews. Not all white males are Jews.

I condemn killing anyone, so do not support or condone any of these posts. But it doesn't help your case when you exaggerate what he posted.

*ETA Not all Jews are Israeli, Zionist, colonialist, white male police.
 
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Darat said:
And for irony I see that bastion of lefty wokeness is reporting on this issue, as ever supporting lefty wokeness:

www.bbc.co.uk

Starmer criticised for welcoming return of Egyptian activist

Alaa Abdel Fattah flew to the UK on Friday after a travel ban imposed by Cairo was lifted.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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They can hardly do anything else. Even the BBC, biased as it is, must recognize this is unconscionable.

You will have noted, of course, that I linked to a Guardian article in my post above, right?

I was interested to see (and stated as much) how the leftie contingent HERE would react. I expect there will be some who will leap to the defense of their Bespectacled Belenus.
 
Planigale said:
To be pedantic none of his posts called for killing Jews. Not all Israelis are Jews. Not all Zionists are Jews, not all colonialists are Jews. Not all Police are Jews. Not all white males are Jews.

I condemn killing anyone, so do not support or condone any of these posts. But it doesn't help your case when you exaggerate what he posted.
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I doubt this piece of human trash is making the fine distinction. Islamists pretty much regard Israelis, Jews and Zionists as all the same, and want all of them exterminated.
 
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