What to do with prostitutes

[kbm99]

It looks like your 50% figure went from a hypothetical to a fact all within one paragraph. I presume that's not what you really meant.

Are you saying there's data that 50% of males sexually abuse someone? Or is this all forms of abuse?

If we include self-abuse then 50% becomes the under-estimation of the century.

 

[Greatest I am]

As has already been pointed out, very little of that has to do with prostitution. Also, you seem to keep forgetting that these prostitutes you're so keen on 'saving' are individual people, who may or may not want you to save them - heck, they might not even need 'saving'! Your unrelated stories (true or not) are completely besides the point and take away from any actual discussion we could be having about prostitution on the whole.

OK.

How about the young Filipino virgin children going to the highest bidder.
Do they not need our help.

Regards
DL

 

[Tanstaafl]

If we include self-abuse then 50% becomes the under-estimation of the century.

GIA, I'm starting to think you meant 50% of the males of your acquiantance. But that's a very, very small sample to draw conclusions from. My sample probably comes out more like 2%, but that's probably way off because I doubt that I know more than a small fraction of what has really gone on in the lives of my acquaintances, and even family members.

 

[toddjh]

How about the young Filipino virgin children going to the highest bidder. Do they not need our help.

The prostitution there is incidental; the real issue is slavery and human trafficking, and yes, they really need our help.

The problem with your position is that it you're seeing that a lot of terrible things (poverty, drugs, abuse, slavery) lead to prostitution, and concluding that prostitution itself must therefore be bad and needs to be stopped. That's an unwarranted assumption.

Prostitution would still be alive and well in a world without any of those things. There is constant demand for it, and it's a way for young women to make money very quickly without any other skills.

 

[Greatest I am]

I second the notion of moral relativism.

And I want the female breast to be accepted as normal viewing material, cause I'm tired of wearing shirts in the summer when guys get to go around without. That is BS, seriously.

+

The law here says that women can in public as well as at the beach.
Very few do. I am not sure why, after all, many were vocal and had the old laws changed??

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Agreed 100%.

And it would necessarily have to be a change in the moral standard, because merely changing the law would lead to a few brave women baring all, only to be surrounded and ruthlessly ogled by the mouth-breathing neanderthal portion of the population.

You know - the 'guys'?

And if it's any consolation whatsoever to you, SoBitter, I took a personal vow about ten years ago (when my weight first topped 200) to NOT go topless in public until women could safely too. Which, for someone who used to only get dressed if he was leaving his room, is quite a change, I must say.

Some philosopher said that to end sexuality except for reproduction all we need to do is go about naked.
He may have been right.
We do not see black native Africans who live in a bra-less existence ogling breasts. He sees them all the time and hold no fascination as breasts do here. Breasts here are for job creation perhaps.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

That's a completely silly thing to say. The fact that there are societal taboos against incest has absolutely nothing to do with whether prostitution should be considered a legitimate profession. If my daughter were a prostitute (in a world where prostitution was socially acceptable), the fact that I wouldn't want to take advantage of her services doesn't necessarily mean I object to her choice of career, it just means that I find the idea of having sex with my own daughter creepy and gross.

GIA wrote
Yet someone else with your daughter is OK.

If my kid were a doctor, I wouldn't want to be his or her patient because it might be awkward and uncomfortable, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't want him or her to be a doctor at all, and it certainly doesn't mean that being a doctor is "bad."

GIA wrote
And if he or she is the only one available then it would be OK be she doctor or hooker?

Anyway, you raised this point in response to my question of whether prostitutes are "selling their bodies" any more than manual laborers are, and I still don't see what your reply has to do with what I was asking.

I wonder if hookers would agree. Perhaps we will be lucky and hear from one.

To your point.
If your system were OK then there should be nothing stopping you from availing yourself of your daughter's or son's services.

If we could all do that then your system might have merit. At present I think that it would be hard for you to find many that could be with their own offspring.

At least I hope not.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

It looks like your 50% figure went from a hypothetical to a fact all within one paragraph. I presume that's not what you really meant.

Are you saying there's data that 50% of males sexually abuse someone? Or is this all forms of abuse? Is this from specific studies? I'm not sure you're wrong, but I'd sure like more data before I conclude you're right.

I am using numbers that are dated and from memory. I would not know where to get current numbers and imagine that they are all over the board depending on the country you are studying.

Is the true number that important? I hope not. Whatever it is, it is too large for my liking and I hope yours as well.
There is a royal commission report that I will try to access.
I'll let you know when I find it.

Regards
DL

 

[Tanstaafl]

I am using numbers that are dated and from memory. I would not know where to get current numbers and imagine that they are all over the board depending on the country you are studying.

Is the true number that important? I hope not. Whatever it is, it is too large for my liking and I hope yours as well.
There is a royal commission report that I will try to access.
I'll let you know when I find it.

Regards
DL

Is accuracy important? Yes.

Is precision important? No.

And of course, any non-zero number is too high for me. No one should be abused.

I was mostly wondering if you had specific studies in mind, or if this was a number you came up with from your personal experiences. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Greatest I am]

GIA, I'm starting to think you meant 50% of the males of your acquaintance. But that's a very, very small sample to draw conclusions from. My sample probably comes out more like 2%, but that's probably way off because I doubt that I know more than a small fraction of what has really gone on in the lives of my acquaintances, and even family members.

I do not know what it is about my personality that invites people to tell me some things. Perhaps it is my trusting nature or simply because I ask questions without borders.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

The prostitution there is incidental; the real issue is slavery and human trafficking, and yes, they really need our help.

The problem with your position is that it you're seeing that a lot of terrible things (poverty, drugs, abuse, slavery) lead to prostitution, and concluding that prostitution itself must therefore be bad and needs to be stopped. That's an unwarranted assumption.

Prostitution would still be alive and well in a world without any of those things. There is constant demand for it, and it's a way for young women to make money very quickly without any other skills.

You may be right. Perhaps that is why some countries legalize the trade to reduce abuse.
In poor countries though this would not help because the laws are ignored anyway.

Things will not likely change until we all become our brothers keeper and try harder as a species to help each other out. Too bad, so sad.

Regards
DL

 

[slingblade]

I wonder if hookers would agree. Perhaps we will be lucky and hear from one.

I know one. What exactly do you want to know? I can ask her.

She's a legal sex worker in Nevada, if that makes any difference.

 

[Greatest I am]

I know one. What exactly do you want to know? I can ask her.

She's a legal sex worker in Nevada, if that makes any difference.

She would not fall into the category under discussion but thanks for the offer.

To those interested in the why of my question; I did a lot of research into addiction and prostitution was the focus of one of my interests.
Drugs tend to be an effect of the trade, not the cause.
There are always exceptions to the rule but few.

Poverty and lack of education is number 1-2.

Regards
DL

 

[Loss Leader]

Some say they would not care if their off spring were in the trade.

Who says this? Who are these "some" who say anything like this?

If your system were OK then there should be nothing stopping you from availing yourself of your daughter's or son's services.

I'm starting to lose count of your unwarranted assumptions. Why would having a system where prostitution is legal necessarily mean that incest is legal?

Assume that the goal of law is to protect the freedom of choice of adults. Prostitution might be legal because those engaging in it are adults and can decide how they want to earn a living. But incest might still be illegal because of the much greater chance that an incestuous relationship involves force or coercion and does not reflect the free choice of each participant.

Assume that the goal of law is to allow people to maximize their economic opportunities. Prostitution might be legal because it allows people to employ all of their skills and assets to earn money. But incest might still be illegal because of the much greater chance that prostitutes will not be paid as well by family members.

Assume that the goal of law is to enforce a particular group's moral code on people whether they like it or not. Prostitution might be legal for indefinable and illogical reasons related to morality and incest may still be illegal for other illogical reasons.

 

[Loss Leader]

She would not fall into the category under discussion but thanks for the offer.

Why not?

Your premises are that: 1. Prostitution is bad; and 2. Prostitution is largely caused by sexual abuse, poverty and lack of education.

Why would the real-world experiences of a prostitute not be a good data point for this discussion?

if we rule out all prostitutes who like their jobs, have other opportunities open to them and weren't abused, we've done nothing but begged the question.

 

[toddjh]

I wonder if hookers would agree. Perhaps we will be lucky and hear from one.

Actually, that's the reason I brought it up. I know a prostitute in Nevada (high class, but not legal), and she thinks it's insulting and demeaning when people say she's "selling her body." That makes it sound like all she does is lie there with a glassy look, when in fact what she's doing is providing a service that men want. Most men don't just want to rent the use of a bodily orifice; they want company, affection, and the impression that it was "good for her too."

If your system were OK then there should be nothing stopping you from availing yourself of your daughter's or son's services.

Er...except that incest is creepy and wrong? (Yes, that's a personal opinion). I just don't understand your logic. Why does thinking prostitution should be legitimized automatically mean that you also have to believe incest is just fine and dandy? Why can't you say, "Yeah, prostitution isn't so bad" on the one hand, and then turn around and say, "Eww, I don't want to have sex with my own daughter" on the other? Why are the two incompatible?

 

[Greatest I am]

Who says this? Who are these "some" who say anything like this?


GIA wrote
Read the postings and you'l pick them out. I also have at least one anecdotal story if you need it.



I'm starting to lose count of your unwarranted assumptions. Why would having a system where prostitution is legal necessarily mean that incest is legal?

GIA wrote
Where did anybody say something so dumb?

Assume that the goal of law is to protect the freedom of choice of adults. Prostitution might be legal because those engaging in it are adults and can decide how they want to earn a living. But incest might still be illegal because of the much greater chance that an incestuous relationship involves force or coercion and does not reflect the free choice of each participant.

GIA wrote
I agree on the incest part. the other is as you say an assumption.

Assume that the goal of law is to allow people to maximize their economic opportunities. Prostitution might be legal because it allows people to employ all of their skills and assets to earn money. But incest might still be illegal because of the much greater chance that prostitutes will not be paid as well by family members.

GIA wrote
Why should a prostitute drop her price for daddy?

Assume that the goal of law is to enforce a particular group's moral code on people whether they like it or not. Prostitution might be legal for indefinable and illogical reasons related to morality and incest may still be illegal for other illogical reasons.

We assume to much here for me to answer.
I note though that you speak of protecting adult but have little to say on protecting children.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Why not?

Your premises are that: 1. Prostitution is bad; and 2. Prostitution is largely caused by sexual abuse, poverty and lack of education.

Why would the real-world experiences of a prostitute not be a good data point for this discussion?

GIA wrote
It would be good.

if we rule out all prostitutes who like their jobs, have other opportunities open to them and weren't abused, we've done nothing but begged the question.

You seem to think that most prostitutes like their job. You also do not like my statistics.
How about giving us some statistics on your unlikely premise.

Regards
DL

 

[Piscivore]

I just don't understand your logic. Why does thinking prostitution should be legitimized automatically mean that you also have to believe incest is just fine and dandy? Why can't you say, "Yeah, prostitution isn't so bad" on the one hand, and then turn around and say, "Eww, I don't want to have sex with my own daughter" on the other? Why are the two incompatible?

Because the only categories he seems to know are prostitutes, people who were abused as children, and family members. Unfortunately, for him, these are all the same people.

 

[Greatest I am]

Actually, that's the reason I brought it up. I know a prostitute in Nevada (high class, but not legal), and she thinks it's insulting and demeaning when people say she's "selling her body." That makes it sound like all she does is lie there with a glassy look, when in fact what she's doing is providing a service that men want. Most men don't just want to rent the use of a bodily orifice; they want company, affection, and the impression that it was "good for her too."



Er...except that incest is creepy and wrong? (Yes, that's a personal opinion). I just don't understand your logic. Why does thinking prostitution should be legitimized automatically mean that you also have to believe incest is just fine and dandy? Why can't you say, "Yeah, prostitution isn't so bad" on the one hand, and then turn around and say, "Eww, I don't want to have sex with my own daughter" on the other? Why are the two incompatible?

Because I think that people should look out for each others interests.
I cannot say it is good for you to put your daughter out there while hoping and praying that mine does not.

It is as bad for me to do your daughter as to do my own if I have any respect for you.

If we all did this would there be a problem with prostitution.
I think not.

Regards
DL