What to do with prostitutes

[strathmeyer]

Well, whatever you do with a prostitute, make you sure you pay her for it.

What if I don't like to pretend that my prostitutes are female? Do I still have to pay them?

 

[Piscivore]

Pisci, why yo be throwin' out perfecly good hos?

Yo, Tan my man- they aliens be wantin' some freaky ol' s[rule 8], but brother do they pay.

My wife abused sexually as a child by a priest and also by an uncle.
My sister by my father.
My mother by her father.
A friend who went into prostitution to save her two sisters from a sexually abusive father.
Two instances of wives closing their eyes to what was happening to daughters.
Personal knowledge of two men who admit that the age of children does not mater for sex.

If my experience is as above then anyone with a more gregarious nature must have horror stories by the bushel compared to me.

That, or your social circle is just that f[rule 8]d up.

The purpose of the post was to gain insight into solutions that I might have missed.

I think sometimes we gave up on eugenics a little too quickly. Of course, since most people are fixated on trivialities like melanin levels or accidents of natal location that's probably for the best.

ETA: Or what an adult chooses to do with their own body, for that matter.

 

[ponderingturtle]

My guess is almost none. Pedophelia isn't about sexual gratification per se. It is about a person who finds sexual gratification in control over children. The abuser sees the child as a person who cannot harm him, reject him or make him feel bad about himself. He has long ago and unknowingly transferred his natural sexual feelings to children. Once transferred, they are almost impossible to get back. Adult prostitutes do not hold his interest.

Why do people concider all child abusers pedophiles? If the child is say 15 that is very different than 8.

 

[toddjh]

The ultimate solution seems to be combining anti child abuse with legalization but to me the main causes seem to be poverty and education.

Eliminating these I think would reduce it greatly or possibly eliminate it all together.

Very unlikely. Prostitution has existed for thousands, possibly millions, of years. We even see it in other primates.

I'm all for attempting to address economic and social factors that lead people to feel forced into prostitution (and the same for any other job they would find distasteful). But demand for the oldest profession is definitely not going to go away. If the number of prostitutes drops, it just means that prices will increase until more women start to consider it worthwhile and equilibrium is restored.

In fact, I don't think it's a good idea to make elimination of prostitution your goal. It's pretty much universal in human cultures, so I think that it clearly serves an important purpose. I think the best thing we could do for the safety and happiness of pretty much everyone involved is to make it a legal and legitimate business.

 

[Loss Leader]

If the child is say 15 that is very different than 8.

How so?

 

[Jeremy]

"What to do with prostitutes..."

How has no one made this joke yet?

 

[ponderingturtle]

How so?

It is a difference between being atracted to a pubecent and pre pubecent individual. Also there are certainly 15 year olds who are more developed than those of age.

So being atracted to teens is not at all compariable to being atracted to prepubecents.

 

[Z]

It is a difference between being atracted to a pubecent and pre pubecent individual. Also there are certainly 15 year olds who are more developed than those of age.

So being atracted to teens is not at all compariable to being atracted to prepubecents.

Technically, they are considered different disorders - I can't recall off the top of my head the name for the other condition (is it ebraphilia or something like that???). Somewhat different pathologies involved, too... so someone attracted to teens might be so for entirely different reasons.

But there's no particular difference to some people - attraction to anyone under legal age (or, should we say, expression of that attraction) is morally wrong.

Then again, for some people, expression of any attraction is wrong...

 

[Loss Leader]

Why do people concider all child abusers pedophiles? If the child is say 15 that is very different than 8.

It is a difference between being atracted to a pubecent and pre pubecent individual. Also there are certainly 15 year olds who are more developed than those of age.

So being atracted to teens is not at all compariable to being atracted to prepubecents.

But the original question wasn't just about pedophilia. It was about incest:

If prostitution were legal and safe, I wonder how many men would find release there rather than abusing their (step)children?

For that purpose, I cannot see the difference between a child of 8 and a child of 15. In both instances, the abuser is using his position of power to exert control over someone in his life who cannot escape him.

In those instances, whether the child is 8 or 15, I doubt the abuser will be satisfied with a prostitute. Not being a fixture in his life, the prostitute's sexual compliance does not meet his ego's needs.

 

[Lothian]

A thanks to all poster to date.
I view the problem from a number of directions and have brought up the topic because it may be bigger than any of us think.

Let me give some anecdotal stories that I have. Not the full detail for the sake of brevity.

My wife abused sexually as a child by a priest and also by an uncle.
My sister by my father.
My mother by her father.
A friend who went into prostitution to save her two sisters from a sexually abusive father.
Two instances of wives closing their eyes to what was happening to daughters.
Personal knowledge of two men who admit that the age of children does not mater for sex.

I have travelled much and have little opportunity for close ties to many people. This is compiled from a small date pool.

If my experience is as above then anyone with a more gregarious nature must have horror stories by the bushel compared to me.

Individually we can all help by being benevolent to all but socially if nothing is done either on the streets or in the home I cannot see improvement.

The purpose of the post was to gain insight into solutions that I might have missed.

Regards
DL

What you have missed is that your O. P asked what can we do about prostitution? You refer to the problem of prostitution. You then give 6 anecdotes.

Anecdote 1 – nothing to do with prostitution
Anecdote 2 - nothing to do with prostitution
Anecdote 3 - nothing to do with prostitution
Anecdote 4 – prostitution being the solution not the problem
Anecdote 5 - nothing to do with prostitution
Anecdote 6 - nothing to do with prostitution

You then say that if nothing is done on the streets you can’t see improvement and talk about posting to gain insight into solutions (of prostitution).

I think you are trolling

Regards
L

 

[Tanstaafl]

...Let me give some anecdotal stories that I have. Not the full detail for the sake of brevity.

My wife abused sexually as a child by a priest and also by an uncle.
My sister by my father.
My mother by her father.
A friend who went into prostitution to save her two sisters from a sexually abusive father.
Two instances of wives closing their eyes to what was happening to daughters.
Personal knowledge of two men who admit that the age of children does not mater for sex.

I have travelled much and have little opportunity for close ties to many people. This is compiled from a small date pool.

If my experience is as above then anyone with a more gregarious nature must have horror stories by the bushel compared to me...

I think your experiences are very non-typical. I certainly hope so, and they're nothing like mine.

 

[Lothian]

I think your experiences are very non-typical. I certainly hope so, and they're nothing like mine.

I think they are made up.

 

[SoBitter]

While I agree that this poster is trollish, I have to say that I don't think there's a problem with prostitution, I think there's a problem with streetwalkers.

High class hookers don't cause a lot of problems, 5 dollar handjob crack addicts do. So the problem is how to get all prostitutes to charge more and be classier. Most likely it goes back to drugs.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Technically, they are considered different disorders - I can't recall off the top of my head the name for the other condition (is it ebraphilia or something like that???). Somewhat different pathologies involved, too... so someone attracted to teens might be so for entirely different reasons.

But there's no particular difference to some people - attraction to anyone under legal age (or, should we say, expression of that attraction) is morally wrong.

Then again, for some people, expression of any attraction is wrong...

The problem with this statement is it means that the same action is moral and immoral depending on what state you are in. As age of consent is not uniform.

 

[Madalch]

My wife...My sister...My mother ...
A friend who went into prostitution..

This is compiled from a small date pool.

If that's your date pool, you need to get out more.

 

[Wheezebucket]

A thanks to all poster to date.
I view the problem from a number of directions and have brought up the topic because it may be bigger than any of us think.

Let me give some anecdotal stories that I have. Not the full detail for the sake of brevity.

My wife abused sexually as a child by a priest and also by an uncle.
My sister by my father.
My mother by her father.
A friend who went into prostitution to save her two sisters from a sexually abusive father.
Two instances of wives closing their eyes to what was happening to daughters.
Personal knowledge of two men who admit that the age of children does not mater for sex.

I have travelled much and have little opportunity for close ties to many people. This is compiled from a small date pool.

If my experience is as above then anyone with a more gregarious nature must have horror stories by the bushel compared to me.

Individually we can all help by being benevolent to all but socially if nothing is done either on the streets or in the home I cannot see improvement.

The purpose of the post was to gain insight into solutions that I might have missed.

Regards
DL

As has already been pointed out, very little of that has to do with prostitution. Also, you seem to keep forgetting that these prostitutes you're so keen on 'saving' are individual people, who may or may not want you to save them - heck, they might not even need 'saving'! Your unrelated stories (true or not) are completely besides the point and take away from any actual discussion we could be having about prostitution on the whole.

 

[Z]

The problem with this statement is it means that the same action is moral and immoral depending on what state you are in. As age of consent is not uniform.

And all that shows is that morality is relative, not absolute. In fact, it pretty much proves that 'morality' is purely user-defined.

And I'd say all it means is that the same action is legal or illegal - not moral or immoral - depending on location.

And this bothers you why? Every action is either moral or immoral, legal or illegal, ethical or unethical - depending on what context, what society, you choose to place the action within.

The Romans, I've read, saw children as reasonable objects of sexual attention - they weren't even human until they were nearly adults. Some cultures thought a child's first sexual experience was supposed to be with a parent or close relative. We call that 'incest' and get nauseated merely thinking about it. Meanwhile, other cultures would have each and every one of us stoned, who ever had sex with someone other than our spouse, only after marriage, and only for procreation.

Morality is entirely relative, and is hardly the issue here.

 

[ponderingturtle]

And all that shows is that morality is relative, not absolute. In fact, it pretty much proves that 'morality' is purely user-defined.

And I'd say all it means is that the same action is legal or illegal - not moral or immoral - depending on location.

You specificaly cited age of consent. This can be as low as 14 in some places.

And this bothers you why? Every action is either moral or immoral, legal or illegal, ethical or unethical - depending on what context, what society, you choose to place the action within.

I don't agree with that. This works out that basicly any action can be condoned. I remember hearing about a religious cult that concidered it normal for girls to be initiated into sex by their father. This would be moral then as it was with in the bounds of their society. Pitcairn Island is also a data point on this.

The Romans, I've read, saw children as reasonable objects of sexual attention - they weren't even human until they were nearly adults. Some cultures thought a child's first sexual experience was supposed to be with a parent or close relative. We call that 'incest' and get nauseated merely thinking about it. Meanwhile, other cultures would have each and every one of us stoned, who ever had sex with someone other than our spouse, only after marriage, and only for procreation.

Morality is entirely relative, and is hardly the issue here.

So forcing your daughter to have sex with you is fine if you have the right background? Good to know it is not abuse then. Takes a load off my mind.

 

[Piscivore]

While I agree that this poster is trollish, I have to say that I don't think there's a problem with prostitution, I think there's a problem with streetwalkers.

High class hookers don't cause a lot of problems, 5 dollar handjob crack addicts do. So the problem is how to get all prostitutes to charge more and be classier.

We need a machine that turns all hookers into Julia Roberts.

Or just turn out Julia Roberts. C'mon, she owes us for "Mona Lisa Smile".

 

[Z]

You specificaly cited age of consent. This can be as low as 14 in some places.

It was 12 in Florida for a while... something about pressure from the Seminoles to keep it low, IIRC.

I don't agree with that. This works out that basicly any action can be condoned. I remember hearing about a religious cult that concidered it normal for girls to be initiated into sex by their father. This would be moral then as it was with in the bounds of their society. Pitcairn Island is also a data point on this.

But their cult lay within the bounds of a greater society, so no, it would still be considered 'wrong'.

One thing to consider - and I think you're overlooking this point - is that the society we live in, as it expands and globalizes, is also beginning to establish a universal/global ethical code, one which will eventually overwrite any local culture's moral codes.

So forcing your daughter to have sex with you is fine if you have the right background? Good to know it is not abuse then. Takes a load off my mind.

IF you live in a culture that condones incestual sex between father and daughter, and that culture is the predominant authority under which you exist, then yes, it's fine... within that culture. But in the U.S., the general cultural status is that incest is wrong, up to (and occasionally including) cousins. And that cultural more overrides most local cultures, so in our society, there isn't any (legal and socially accepted) culture that accepts incest.

But, yes, that does mean that any action can be condoned - IF it is placed in such a context where the cultural and sociological conditions are such that such actions are condoned anyway. If, for example, extreme overpopulation and lack of resources so cheapens human life that murder is considered a good thing (to reduce population), then murder becomes good. And so forth.

But no action exists in a vacuum, and the culture which controls law and enforcement resources is the culture which defines morality for a given system. In our country, where law and enforcement resources are meted out from state to state in differing fashions, the definition of morality does change from state to state.

Where I used to live, in Oklahoma, the law stated that it was wrong (immoral, somehow) to get a tattoo; but body piercing was considered OK, while masseuses working second-shift as prostitutes was 'wrong' but tolerated. In North Carolina, tats and piercings were OK, even desirable, but prostitution was strongly enforced against. Now that I'm here in Cincinnati, no one gives a damn about piercings or tats, and I have no idea what the local culture regarding prostitution is like, since the whores are more low-key and less obvious about their trade. I haven't heard of any major busts or anything of that nature in the few years I've been here, for sure - maybe it's another of those 'blind eye' things.

But that's the true nature of morality - it is NEVER absolute, and it ALWAYS changes with society.

Heck, if Tragic Monkey gets his way, clothes will be immoral on beautiful people, while folks like me will have to enter the public view wearing a heavy covering of horsehair and canvas...