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What are the odds...

So, BS, see what I mean about pulling probabilities out of your a$$? Every probability you don't like is dismissed as one in a million or so, but if it's one you like, then it's 9,999/10,000 time. Do you honestly think these odds are anywhere close to reality? If you do, you're totally whacked in the head, if you don't, then why do you expect any of us to buy them?

Why don't you try honestly evaluating some probabilities? It still wouldn't prove a thing, but we might almost start to respect you.
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:
False premise. We don't know what happened. Lamp posts can be knocked over by a guy with a wrench.
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...with roughly 2500 people in cars and trucks whizzing by, witnessing it, not thinking to inform the authorities that some guy is loosening the bolts of the lamp posts which may or may not fall into traffic when he gets done....

And I suppose this same fella had a REAL big hammer to make it look like the lamp posts were struck by a plane.

OOOH!! Maybe the Flash is real!!! And maybe he carried the Hulk (also real) on his back while he zoomed to each lamp post, loosened the bolts, and toppled them over!! And when everyone was distracted by the big boom at the Pentagon, Hulk smashed up the posts!!!

I can see why you claim to be a seeker of truth. This is some brilliant analysis right here. I would've never thought of it if I weren't led down the path by someone who tirelessly pursues the truth. Thanks, man.
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:
Then add the odds of over 200 independent experts employed by NIST to investigate the Towers being fooled or bribed
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Fooled - 1/100,000,000,000,000,000

Bribed - 1
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Charlatan, you have just besmirched an entire profession. Not cool.

I strongly suggest you back that up with some evidence. You want to play the "odds?" By that logic, it is far far more likely that you have been bribed by a foreign power hostile to the United States.

I don't believe that either, I think you're just blowing smoke and have an utter disregard for other human beings, notably professional scientists. Possibly out of jealousy.
 
geggy said:
All I'm asking you to do is to think like a terrorist. Pretend you're osama and the major part of planning an attack such as 9/11, especially 9/11, is to map out strategies in bypassing defense and security, let alone the US spending an average of 300 million a year on it, what odds would you think you have in succeeding?
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Pretty good ones depending on the level of risk you are willing to assume.

YOU are the one who needs to "think like a terrorist".

The downside for Al Qaeda was minimal - if the US discovered the plan and arrested all 19 of the terrorists then AQ was out 19 drones and a couple of hundred thousand dollars. The only risk was possible exposure of their support networks via interrogation of the arrested.

From there, from the terrorist view it's all "gain". the purpose of terror (to quote our good friend Lenin) is terror. Anything in this operation which increased the perception of threat was a "gain". Even if they had not succeeded in hitting the Towers deliberately crashing the airliners would have been horrifying to most people.

The downside was minimal, the upside in their terms was huge.

How did you come up with your 100 million to one figure? It doesn't appear to be based on anything except your own preconceptions and misunderstandings.
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:

50,000 people in and out of each twin tower per day. 100 extra security or maintenence workers could blend in easily. Most of the work was done in elevator shafts. Many people did notice odd things like evacuations, and power downs, and loud construction noises coming from empty offices, of which there were many.

So they were "noticed".

False premise. It looks like explosives did go off.

Ditto.

Those buildings were disintegrated, as it turned out. A few duds wouldn't have made any difference.

Explosives can be firepoofed.

They don't have to work "perfectly", the demolitions were not "perfect".

WTC7 was not beside twin towers, it was over 300 feet away, across the street, with a building in between. The closer buildings suffered much worse damage, were smaller to begine with, yet stood.

Given the circumstances, I'd day those odds were about 9,999,999/1,000,000

Fireproofing

Firefighters? in WTC7??

see above.

False premise. I certainly don't endorse fake phone call theories.

Military guys are sworn to follow orders. I'd say 9,999/10,000

False premise, people did notice. We don't know what happened at the Pentagon. Some people "noticed" a missile. Others noticed a global hawk. Others "noticed" a 757. Others didn't notice anything. Discrediting eyewitness testimony is part of the op.

False premise. We don't know what happened. Lamp posts can be knocked over by a guy with a wrench.

Every witness? False premise.

NTSB is required to investigate all air crashes. Where are the reports in this case? Excellent point. THe odds of fooling all the NTSB guys are slim, hence no investigations.

False premise. Who says they were "fooled"? Look at the fire temp data from NIST. They don't show any hot steel from the fires. THe super hot fire temps come from the computer model. The truth movement doesn't suggest they were "fooled", we suggest they are lying.

Fooled - 1/100,000,000,000,000,000

Bribed - 1

1 - Consider Zelikow, a man whose stated area of expertise is the creation of myth.

Consider other conspiracies, such as operation ajax, which were successful and kept secret for decades. Not off the scale.
Given the long, long history of blood thirsty, greedy tyrants who have lusted after global domination, sadly, the odds are

Absolute Certainty.
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Well, that's the dumbest post I've seen on these forums. Odds that TS1234 will learn an actual fact about 9/11 in the next 6 months? Vanishingly small.

How about those hundreds of FEMA and OEM agents in NYC on 9/10? Let's see your evidence for that.
:dl:
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:


50,000 people in and out of each twin tower per day. 100 extra security or maintenence workers could blend in easily. Most of the work was done in elevator shafts. Many people did notice odd things like evacuations, and power downs, and loud construction noises coming from empty offices, of which there were many.

So they were "noticed".
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Oh my god - you are an idiot!! That explains your postings!

Holy crap - when I started reading this thread I thought you may have a brain cell or two to rub together but apparently not.

You do realize, of course, that when that streetlight turns red in front of you at the intersection it has nothing to do with chance or timers but is because the "secret cabal" is tracking your every move and decided to piss you off?

You have, obviously, never worked in plant services in a high rise building. You certainly have never worked in construction or demo. How do I know this? because what you are writing is utter hogwash.
 
My god, these CreTins just don't give up, do they? What utter, utter drivel. Come back when you have something vaguely approaching evidence. If you're going to argue "odds", what are the odds that the US gov could pull off what you claim AND get away with it? Agh, that point's been made to you already, along with plenty of others that you'll just ignore or see as proof that we're either in denial or in the pay of the Illuminati.

I don't think there have been enough "ad homs" in this thread, so I'm going to call you both "sad freaks" and leave it at that.
 
I'm still waiting for geggy to tell me what the hell the DEA was supposed to do to stop Al Qaida on 9/11. He took the time to list it in the OP, it would be nice if he could take the time to explain it.
 
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Brainache said:
So you are asserting that every structural engineer who studied the WTC collapse was bribed. How much? Not one of them refused. I would go on, but your premise is just too stupid.
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If only the Jews informed me of 9/11 about 10 years before, I could have choosen to study structural engineering. Could have made me rich after 9/11.
 
Loss Leader said:
I'm still waiting for geggy to tell me what the hell the DEA was supposed to do to stop Al Qaida on 9/11. He took the time to list it in the OP, it would be nice if he could take the time to explain it.
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What about the Salvation Army? Why didn't they do more? Or Goodwill? The Red Cross?

My god this is all spiraling out of control!!!!!
 
Loss Leader said:
I'm still waiting for geggy to tell me what the hell the DEA was supposed to do to stop Al Qaida on 9/11. He took the time to list it in the OP, it would be nice if he could take the time to explain it.
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We all know that the DEA was deliberately distracted by attractive Isreali "art students." Therefore they could not...oh, wait.
 
Well, see if the DEA had given up this silly war on drugs, then the funds released could have been used for airport securoty. And the security guards would be more relaxed and alert because they could all smoke a big fattie right before shift, so they'd be more likely to catch the terrorists.

Am I getting close?
 
The eyewitness testimony, in the case of the Pentagon, is important but not the only piece of evidence of the way things actually happened. There is the evidence that a passenger jet was hijacked, the evidence that debris recovered at the site matches that plane, the Flight Data Recorder recovered at the site matches that plane, the DNA recovered at the scene matches almost all the passengers of the hijacked plane, and there are many eyewitnesses who say they saw a plane matching the description of the missing plane.

I would suggest, if you plan on using the eyewitnesses as the basis for your argument, look at the ratio of people who said they saw a 757 with AA markings to saw those who saw nothing. Then break it down into more categories.

Those who saw a 757 with AA markings.
Those who saw a plane with AA markings.
Those who saw a 757 passenger plane.
Those who saw a passenger plane.
Those who saw a 757.
Those who saw a commercial plane.
Those who saw a non-passenger plane.
Those who saw a cargo plane.
Those who saw a military plane.
Those who saw a plane.
Those who saw a missile.
Those who saw something.
Those who saw nothing.

I'd have to do some research, but I'm willing to bet most would fall near the top. I wouldn't discount the other possibilities, but with evidence backing up the eyewitnesses near the top I would assume that those near the bottom are mistaken. It was traveling at a high rate of speed and most humans cannot see things in "bullet time" (stopping the image and circling it as in The Matrix).
 
alexg said:
Exactly, every crime defeats an army of crime fighters. Why can't all of Israel stop a few suicide bombers? CTers must think the government is omnipotent.
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Sadly, many people do. Thus my use of the word idiots in a post above this.
 
What seems to continue to escape many of these 'truth' seekers is that this is not a video game, or some kind of esoteric rhetorical exercise.

These are real people they are so cavalierly accusing of complicity to mass murder, on the slimmest of evidence.
 
twinstead said:
What seems to continue to escape many of these 'truth' seekers is that this is not a video game, or some kind of esoteric rhetorical exercise.

These are real people they are so cavalierly accusing of complicity to mass murder, on the slimmest of evidence.
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They also think that life is like an episode of "Lost," where people involved in a "cover-up" or "conspiracy" want you to find out. So they leave clues that only the most observant of us can find (the Naudet's name being an anagram of the street they were on). If there was a conspiracy, especially one as complicated as the CTs involving 9/11 are, they would never leave any evidence or any obvious clues.
 
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