Cont: Trump's Coup - Part 3

[mgidm86]

Continued from here. As is usual the split point is arbitrary and participants are free to quote from previous threads.

Posted By: Agatha

To repeat:

Agreed. They needlessly complicate things.

Suppose Pence went along with the cockamamie scheme to refuse to certify electors, nobody gets 270 votes in the EC, the election gets thrown into the House, and Trump wins ("wins"). Would you regard that as a coup?

Depends on the specifics, but probably yes, with the lion's share of the blame on Pence for actually taking the unconstitutional steps to make it happen. Still can't see any plausible way for him to refuse the certification that the action wouldn't be challenged, and Pence likely going to the hoosegow.

And that's how I see the whole crew; lots of yapping about what they're gonna do, but too timid to actually do it.

So it's probably an attempted coup.

Pence would not get the lion's share of blame: It starts with the president. Pence would have been following orders ........

Sounds like we are all in agreement now.

 

[Tommok]

Admittedly, I was powerfully turned off by his "it's not up for debate" approach (which I note you didn't address). That's not what intelligent people say. That's what exceptionally stupid people say when they can't argue their point yet demand it be accepted as fact. Theres a term for that.

In this context it means "there is great agreement among people who have actually studied the subject and understand the concept and possible versions of a coup." He then goes on to demonstrate just that by pointing out and explaining some of those categories which are often left unconsidered by people who have not studied this at all. He also names and characterizes his sources. So he, in fact, DOES argue the point.

Tommok

 

[gnome]

Seems like just so much dithering over finer details. To me attempting to forcibly interfere with the lawful transfer of power crosses a line, and after that point semantics doesn't seem terribly useful for trying to minimize the significance.

 

[Stacyhs]

Seems like just so much dithering over finer details. To me attempting to forcibly interfere with the lawful transfer of power crosses a line, and after that point semantics doesn't seem terribly useful for trying to minimize the significance.

Reminds me of Kellyanne's "Alternative facts" when trying to spin Sean Spicer's lies.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Freaking Trump supporting morons yesterday claim Jan. 6 was a set up by Dems and FBI:

MTG and Matt Gaetz Brought out a video where they Accused Ray Epps of being an FBI plant, Ray Epps is an Oklahoma Bombing Conspiracy theorist who believed the FBI blew up babies in the Alfred P Morrow building to destroy the Militia Movement!
He is an Original Waco Whacko Oath Keeper nut job!

 

[dirtywick]

Seems like just so much dithering over finer details. To me attempting to forcibly interfere with the lawful transfer of power crosses a line, and after that point semantics doesn't seem terribly useful for trying to minimize the significance.

the problem is Thermal's argument appears to be that it didn't feel significant so it's not a coup

 

[Apathia]

I prefer my insurrections to be free range.

 

[SteveAitch]

I prefer my insurrections to be free range.

Organic free range?

 

[Apathia]

Organic free range?

Yes, but you just can't know what Internet trash sites those insurrectionist chickens have been pecking through.

 

[Upchurch]

the problem is Thermal's argument appears to be that it didn't feel significant so it's not a coup

I think the problem is that Thermal landed on that position on 1/6 and nothing we’ve learned since has been allowed to change that. Classic fitting the data to the theory entree, with a side of cherry-picking.

 

[Thermal]

I think the problem is that Thermal landed on that position on 1/6 and nothing we’ve learned since has been allowed to change that. Classic fitting the data to the theory entree, with a side of cherry-picking.

You are both wrong, and painfully so, but I'm bored to death repeating to you.

 

[Venom]

Seems like just so much dithering over finer details. To me attempting to forcibly interfere with the lawful transfer of power crosses a line, and after that point semantics doesn't seem terribly useful for trying to minimize the significance.

Eh. I see this subforum as one of the few opportunities to be able to go over the fine details. This was never about whether the attack was bad for "USA Politics" or not. At least not here.

 

[Upchurch]

You are both wrong, and painfully so, but I'm bored to death repeating to you.

The internet has a long memory. You’ve been saying the same thing since during the insurrection. You’d made up your mind before it was even over and no evidence has since shaken your belief.

 

[Thermal]

The internet has a long memory.

I assume you meant to link to this post:

Unless they have some actual plan or means to seize power, no. It's just a Dildo Storm of nitwits, who are in for an unpleasant acquaintance with the legal system. .

Let's watch, shall we, as the Dildo Storm is swept into inconsequence by Capitol Security.

Yes...yes, that's what I said, and stand by it. They were in fact nitwits. They are in fact experiencing an unpleasant acquaintance with our legal system. They were substantially inconsequential, as the certification resumed a few hours later. This is rather what I meant by getting tired of repeating the same thing. Do you want a gold star for understanding what "repeating" means? Dunno where you are going with this.

You’ve been saying the same thing since during the insurrection. You’d made up your mind before it was even over and no evidence has since shaken your belief.

I love it that you are blind to the irony of your comment here.

 

[Upchurch]

Yes...yes, that's what I said, and stand by it. They were in fact nitwits. They are in fact experiencing an unpleasant acquaintance with our legal system. They were substantially inconsequential, as the certification resumed a few hours later. This is rather what I meant by getting tired of repeating the same thing. Do you want a gold star for understanding what "repeating" means? Dunno where you are going with this.

The point that you're missing is that you jumped to a conclusion and have not changed it despite evidence we've gotten since then. The fundamental tenant of skepticism is to question assumptions, especially one's own. You've failed to do with, on numerous occasions, for no rational reason. The rationalizations you do give, when you give any at all, are filled with logical fallacies, primarily cherry-picking.

I love it that you are blind to the irony of your comment here.

In order for it to be ironic, I would have had to jumped to immediate conclusion. I did not do that. I didn't even start calling it a coup until November 2021 because I was trying to understand all the aspects of what had happened, and I knew more information would come out in the weeks and months following. Honestly, there will continue to be more information as investigations continue, but every bit of it so far has pointed in the direction of this being an attempted coup.

 

[johnny karate]

Yes...yes, that's what I said, and stand by it. They were in fact nitwits. They are in fact experiencing an unpleasant acquaintance with our legal system. They were substantially inconsequential, as the certification resumed a few hours later. This is rather what I meant by getting tired of repeating the same thing. Do you want a gold star for understanding what "repeating" means? Dunno where you are going with this.

The January 6th insurrectionists were "substantially inconsequential".

This ace threat assessment has been brought to you the same person who offered this chilling warning about what might happen if statues are torn down:

Any mob, with any motivation, being empowered by precedent to do anything they like without regard for the procedural will of the actual people. For a start.

 

[Checkmite]

One of the Capitol rioters, a non-arrestee who has been expecting to plea guilty during her arraignment on Monday as part of a plea agreement, has just been charged but curiously again not arrested after a fatal drunk-driving accident in Missouri. She was allegedly intoxicated and driving the wrong way on the interstate when she smashed into another vehicle, killing one of its occupants and injuring another.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

... a non-arrestee ... but curiously again not arrested ...

Not clear on your terminology, what is a non-arrested arrested person??

 

[gnome]

One of the Capitol rioters, a non-arrestee who has been expecting to plea guilty during her arraignment on Monday as part of a plea agreement, has just been charged but curiously again not arrested after a fatal drunk-driving accident in Missouri. She was allegedly intoxicated and driving the wrong way on the interstate when she smashed into another vehicle, killing one of its occupants and injuring another.

Are we going through another phase of trying not to jail people unless absolutely necessary, due to COVID?

 

[varwoche]

Minions at work:

Groups supporting former President Donald Trump in Arizona and Michigan sent fake documents to the National Archives falsely showing that he had won those states' Electoral College votes.