Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (2)

[Checkmite]

Lots of non-white people served in the foreign Nazi SS units. This seems to be the mall shooter's inspiration.

I don't know if it's true that lots of non-white people served in Nazi units, but non-white people serving in Nazi units is not the mall shooter's "inspiration". His inspiration was that he's white.

I don't understand what about this is so difficult for some of our members here to grasp, but there are a large percentage of Hispanic people who consider themselves to be white, full stop. They don't consider it to be a group they're joining or aligning with, it's a group they're already in by definition.

And this isn't some new "woke" thing either. If you've lived in the US for the last, say, 30 years or so, and have ever filled out some kind of government or standardized medical form on which you're asked to give your race, such as some license applications or patient intake sheets, you have noticed that the question of Hispanic ethnicity is usually either a completely separate item from the race question, or is combined to subset the White and Black options (e.g. White/non-Hispanic vs White/Hispanic, etc).

 

[lauwenmark]

I don't understand what about this is so difficult for some of our members here to grasp, but there are a large percentage of Hispanic people who consider themselves to be white, full stop.

What is very difficult to grasp for me (coming from a Western Europe perspective) is how it is not only allowed but considered normal to constantly query for a person's "ethnicity". I mean, what is the point of that information? How is it relevant? And why would such things be asked on a medical sheet? This sounds like straight institutionalized racism to me, plain and simple.

 

[Thermal]

What is very difficult to grasp for me (coming from a Western Europe perspective) is how it is not only allowed but considered normal to constantly query for a person's "ethnicity". I mean, what is the point of that information? How is it relevant? And why would such things be asked on a medical sheet? This sounds like straight institutionalized racism to me, plain and simple.

At a guess, for data collection wrt medical issues that have racial connections?

"Hey Bob? Have you noticed that a large proportion of patients with sickle cell anemia are reporting that they are black?"

 

[lobosrul5]

At a guess, for data collection wrt medical issues that have racial connections?

"Hey Bob? Have you noticed that a large proportion of patients with sickle cell anemia are reporting that they are black?"

I've actually had lab results come back where it said you are in normal range from this number to this number... unless you are Black, then the range is between these other numbers.

 

[Ron Obvious]

What is very difficult to grasp for me (coming from a Western Europe perspective) is how it is not only allowed but considered normal to constantly query for a person's "ethnicity". I mean, what is the point of that information? How is it relevant? And why would such things be asked on a medical sheet? This sounds like straight institutionalized racism to me, plain and simple.

It seems to very important and relevant to some when a particular ethnicity is over-represented in the victim category, but then there'll be complaints when you point out that they're also largely victimised by that same (their own) ethnic group.

 

[quadraginta]

It seems to very important and relevant to some when a particular ethnicity is over-represented in the victim category, but then there'll be complaints when you point out that they're also largely victimised by that same (their own) ethnic group.

Yup. It's true. Nearly every Black with sickle cell got it from another Black.

 

[Checkmite]

What is very difficult to grasp for me (coming from a Western Europe perspective) is how it is not only allowed but considered normal to constantly query for a person's "ethnicity". I mean, what is the point of that information? How is it relevant? And why would such things be asked on a medical sheet? This sounds like straight institutionalized racism to me, plain and simple.

It's a voluntary question where it appears - there's usually a decline to answer option. It's for demographic statistical purposes. People answering those questions is how we get statistics on, for instance, the kinds of medical care minorities in general are receiving and how much they're paying for them.

 

[novaphile]

What is very difficult to grasp for me (coming from a Western Europe perspective) is how it is not only allowed but considered normal to constantly query for a person's "ethnicity". I mean, what is the point of that information? How is it relevant? And why would such things be asked on a medical sheet? This sounds like straight institutionalized racism to me, plain and simple.

In Australia, we are commonly asked if we wish to be recorded as Aboriginal, Torres Strait Islander or both.

This is because extra funding/services are provided to members of those groups (including translators and people who can advise on cultural needs).

I've heard it being argued that this is a form of institutionalised 'racism' but it's a stretch.

Racism is about mistreating people because of their race, it's not about providing extra funding and services to groups of people that need it.

Edited to add: as mentioned above, getting that extra funding will depend on getting the 'statistics' hence there is value for people to make those declarations.

 

[bruto]

I can certainly see why some Hispanics are annoyed that their ethnicity is singled out, as well as its apparent morphing into a race (my wife's largely Catalonian ancestry makes her a little sensitive to this, despite being more recently Cuban) but at the same time, the society has unfortunately singled them out for discrimination without any finer distinction of origin, ethnicity, race, or anything else worth considering. In an ideal world we would not have to ask anyone anything about ethnicity, race, country of origin, etc., but the census question is an unfortunate byproduct of social bigotry.

 

[Bogative]

The deceased victim was a 17-year-old girl. She could be a gang member but I doubt it. I will follow up on the story as more information is released. My guess is that none of the victims were gang members.

As promised, more information on this "not-a-real-mass-shooting" mass shooting.

Four people have been arrested or identified as suspects. 18-year-old Oscar Castrejon-Sanchez, 21-year-old Marcos Douglas-Ayala, 21-year-old Marcos Douglas-Ayala and an unnamed 14-year-old male.

Some of these fellas were at a house party where they were involved in an altercation with some rival gang members. Someone was pistol whipped, another person was hit on the head with a bottle. The dispute was over. These brain engineers decided to rent a car and return and pull off a drive-by shooting.

17-year-old Justina Stubb was killed and 5 others wounded. Authorities have not said if she or any of the other victims were gang members.

We'll have to wait and see if this mass shooting can be dismissed as "gang violence."

https://fox40.com/news/local-news/chico-california/chico-police-arrests-party-shooting/

 

[Foster Zygote]

Yes, that's the one.

Trying for "this white supremacist, neo-Nazi mass murderer doesn't count because he didn't have blue eyes" is a bit like saying that someone doesn't count as an incel because he wasn't a virgin.

 

[Thermal]

Wrong thread

 

[Ron Obvious]

Trying for "this white supremacist, neo-Nazi mass murderer doesn't count because he didn't have blue eyes" is a bit like saying that someone doesn't count as an incel because he wasn't a virgin.

Ridiculous comparison, c'mon. You simply can't lay a brown-skinned, Hispanic murderer at the feet of white supremacists when none of them would have accepted him as one of their own. That smacks of desperation.

 

[Checkmite]

Obviously they did though; he wasn't shunned from the forum where he was posting all his white-supremacy memes and photos, so clearly not as many white supremacists have a problem with Hispanic neo-Nazis as you think (or want to claim, at least).

 

[sinnikal]

Ridiculous comparison, c'mon. You simply can't lay a brown-skinned, Hispanic murderer at the feet of white supremacists when none of them would have accepted him as one of their own. That smacks of desperation.

How do you explain the existence of Enrique Tarrio?

 

[shemp]

1 killed, 3 injured in Alabama birthday party shooting

Alabama authorities said that a shooting at a birthday party in Birmingham left one person dead and three others injured.

In a video statement, assistant public information officer Truman Fitzgerald said that the shooting took place around 10 p.m. local time Friday night. Officers from the Birmingham Police Department's South Precinct were dispatched to the 900 block of 47th Street North after receiving a report of multiple people being shot.

It's time to ban birthday parties!

 

[Ron Obvious]

How do you explain the existence of Enrique Tarrio?

Never heard of him. After googling him, he appears to be a member of the Proud Boys (not, nominally, a white supremacist organisation), and from the picture I saw of him, he could conceivably pass as a tanned person of European descent.

Not so with the mass shooter under discussion who could never be mistaken for a white supremacist, regardless of his tattoos.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Ridiculous comparison, c'mon. You simply can't lay a brown-skinned, Hispanic murderer at the feet of white supremacists when none of them would have accepted him as one of their own. That smacks of desperation.

Gee, I didn't think of that. I mean, for all we know, he might even have had a drop or two of Jewish blood in him. It sure is good to know that proper, white white supremacist neo-Nazis are above all that, and we can deflect blame for his atrocities away from racism and gun-porn culture, and lay it squarely at the feet of his Spanish ancectry. I'm sure all the real white supremacists on Odnoklassniki were telling him that his violent, misogynistic and racist rhetoric wasn't welcome there, and that he should take that hate speech somewhere else.

 

[Checkmite]

Trying to gatekeep a dead white supremacist after the fact is a silly attempt at prevarication. Doubtless some white supremacists, maybe even most, would not have "accepted" the Allen shooter. But that makes no difference whatsoever - obviously, he found a community of white supremacists that did, whether or not it was niche. And whether or not what counts as "mainstream white supremacists" would have accepted him, he certainly accepted mainstream white supremacist ideology and rhetoric, and it led him to commit these acts.

 

[Ron Obvious]

Trying to gatekeep a dead white supremacist after the fact is a silly attempt at prevarication. Doubtless some white supremacists, maybe even most, would not have "accepted" the Allen shooter. But that makes no difference whatsoever - obviously, he found a community of white supremacists that did, whether or not it was niche. And whether or not what counts as "mainstream white supremacists" would have accepted him, he certainly accepted mainstream white supremacist ideology and rhetoric, and it led him to commit these acts.

No, it's an all-too-common desperation to cram the facts into preferred villain/victim narratives, rather than than dispassionately examining the facts.

It's merely the mirror image of the far right casting the Jews or progressives as the villains in every narrative and no more admirable. As sceptics, we should be above that.