Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 32

[LondonJohn]

Yeah, and Francesco attended his dear brother's memorial as evidenced by the photo of him coming out of the church!

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/7166963801887804a1.jpg[/qimg]

The ballerina botherer and his vast, storied team of Italian lawyers & analysts were really on top of their game with that one, weren’t they?!

Continued from

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347719

Posted By: jimbob

 

[Stacyhs]

The ballerina botherer and his vast, storied team of Italian lawyers & analysts were really on top of their game with that one, weren’t they?!

Yeah, took me all of a few minutes to disprove that one. But some still cling to it like Jack Dawson clung to that floating board. Didn't work out too well for him, either.

 

[Vixen]

This mini-thread started when you claimed, "They (the police) don't waste their time on the innocent without any motive because at the end of the day they have to explain it all before a High Court judge."

You then filled this mini-thread with noise that culminated in saying that the cops had to use extreme, coercive measures because a mass-murderer could have been on the loose.

Responding to your scattergun imaginings is exhausting, which I think is the point of you making them.

The police were simply doing their job. Come out of your fantasy world that they targetted Knox and Sollecito for nefarious reasons.

 

[Vixen]

I'd ask for a citation that "hundreds of people" left Perugia, but I know better.

.

I know this is a waste of time but....citation?




So did Amanda. But do you really think Sophie was questioned in the same manner as Amanda?

You really have no familiarity with this case.

 

[Vixen]

Oh, good lord. Do you really think we don't recognize that you failed to address anything in my post and veered of into "Look! Squirrel!" territory?




LOL! RS's book wasn't "ghost written"; it was co-authored. Fail one.



Um....yes, it is.



So you're admitting that Guede's book and Mignini's book are "a pack of lies for the gullible"?




Ah, here we go again; only the overturned Massei court is valid. Uh-huh...right......you might want to consult the Marasca SC.

As I already presented, the phone logs do not support your opinion.

An impartial observer would note that I, and the other posters here, routinely and regularly quote and cite evidence to support our statements while...you do not despite repeated requests to do so.

Do read Marasca-Bruno which clearly states the position re the telephone logs.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Just because they can in theory does not mean they did in practice.



So give me a possible motivation for police forcibly making Sollecito lie instead of pursuing the 'real' murderers.

So you now think innocent people *can* do these things. In theory.

Here's a possible motivation: the police followed your advice and trusted their special police instincts that tell them when they had their man, so then they just had to pressure him into admitting it. That's what you told us the police do, right? They just *know* when they have their guy. Right?

 

[Bill Williams]

The police were simply doing their job. Come out of your fantasy world that they targetted Knox and Sollecito for nefarious reasons.

.... more filling the thread with noise.

 

[Vixen]

So you now think innocent people *can* do these things. In theory.

Here's a possible motivation: the police followed your advice and trusted their special police instincts that tell them when they had their man, so then they just had to pressure him into admitting it. That's what you told us the police do, right? They just *know* when they have their guy. Right?

I have not seen any convincing argument that the police treated Knox and Sollecito any differently from anybody else. The police are not perfect by any stretch of imagination. However, the idea that one person - Mignini - can fix it so that two specific individuals get singled out for one of the decades most publicised murdered hasn't really made its case as a convincing one.

I don't know how mcuh you know of the case, but the police did indeed interview literally dozens of people, some for hours on end. What possible motive did they have in singling out a 'couple of innocent kids'.


There is no way that would get past a court of randomly ascribed judges on a circuit rota, together with a panel of lay judges, likewise selected.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

How is it 'coercive interrogation' unless they believe a person is innocent. Why would they need to coerce someone into admission if they are guilty.

"Remember: It's not coercion if you think they're guilty." Get that poster up outside every police interrogation room and watch the clearup rates skyrocket.

This is an absolutely staggering post. I can hardly believe I'm reading it.

 

[Vixen]

"Remember: It's not coercion if you think they're guilty." Get that poster up outside every police interrogation room and watch the clearup rates skyrocket.

This is an absolutely staggering post. I can hardly believe I'm reading it.

Please have some perspective. A young woman was viciously stabbed in the throat three times with the knife inserted several times in a sawing motion upwards, breaking her hyoid bone. It took her ten to fifteen minutes to die alone, locked in a room with her phones removed, one of which she carried in her back pocket so that she could be in close contact with her sick mother. Are you seriously claiming that police are going to play a stupid game of scraping and bowing. They are not your mates. They are acting on behalf of the State for the victim.

Neither Knox' nor Sollecito's counsel put in a formal complaint about the police, as they are supposed to under Italy's bar standards.

I suggest that is just their way of trying to make money from a gullible public by claiming they were 'railroaded' and wrongly charged.

 

[jimbob]

Membership Agreement
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Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jimbob

 

[Jack by the hedge]

The police were simply doing their job. Come out of your fantasy world that they targetted Knox and Sollecito for nefarious reasons.

The police were simply doing their job incompetently. Whether or not they had any nefarious reason to target these particular innocent parties is immaterial.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Please have some perspective. A young woman was viciously stabbed in the throat three times with the knife inserted several times in a sawing motion upwards, breaking her hyoid bone. It took her ten to fifteen minutes to die alone, locked in a room with her phones removed, one of which she carried in her back pocket so that she could be in close contact with her sick mother. Are you seriously claiming that police are going to play a stupid game of scraping and bowing. They are not your mates. They are acting on behalf of the State for the victim.

Neither Knox' nor Sollecito's counsel put in a formal complaint about the police, as they are supposed to under Italy's bar standards.

I suggest that is just their way of trying to make money from a gullible public by claiming they were 'railroaded' and wrongly charged.

The absolutely horrible nature of the crime does not in any way excuse the police for their incompetent investigation. On the contrary.

I absolutely don't care that you resent the thought that those innocent people might be able to make money out of their terrible experiences. The result of their wrongful conviction, that they got jailed and the real killer got lesser punishment, is what sickens me.

 

[TomG]

Interesting claim from Quennell in a YouTube comments section:

"Peter Quennell NYC
3 days ago
And breaking news: it now seems 100% certain that the case will be re-opened in 2023. All developments will be reported on TJMK."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy9rl-Md-PE&lc=UgwhlPiaXBO2N2XRX314AaABAg.9DBWZdgtddb9ih5F9Y_3Rk

Woo-hoo!

Hoots

 

[TruthCalls]

I have not seen any convincing argument that the police treated Knox and Sollecito any differently from anybody else. The police are not perfect by any stretch of imagination. However, the idea that one person - Mignini - can fix it so that two specific individuals get singled out for one of the decades most publicised murdered hasn't really made its case as a convincing one.

I don't know how mcuh you know of the case, but the police did indeed interview literally dozens of people, some for hours on end. What possible motive did they have in singling out a 'couple of innocent kids'.


There is no way that would get past a court of randomly ascribed judges on a circuit rota, together with a panel of lay judges, likewise selected.

How about the fact that the investigation almost immediately suspected Amanda based, according to Mignini, Giobbi and others, on her behavior, beginning with "the kiss". Because of this, virtually no one else was ever seriously considered. Mignini controlled how the investigation was run, and he almost from the beginning believed Amanda was involved, so why you think it not possible that Mignini couldn't "fix it so that two specific individuals get singled out" escapes me.

I'm curious, have you ever reviewed the fake wiki's "master list" of files? If you have - and I assume you have - then perhaps you could explain why there are dozens of taps, intercepts, etc., on Amanda and Raffaele's phones and conversations, as well as those of family and friends. It just doesn't make any sense to me why all those files exist for those two yet very few for anyone else if everyone was treated the same by the police. You'd think an open minded, honest person would review that list and conclude the police were almost exclusively focused on Amanda and Raffaele, but perhaps I'm looking at this all wrong.

 

[TruthCalls]

Here's the thing that makes Vixen's whole comment so ridiculous - if Amanda had been with Guede, the last thing Amanda would want would be for the police to figure out his involvement because surely his implicating her would be the next thing to happen. So to suggest she was trying to point the police towards Guede is in itself rather idiotic. That would be the last thing she'd want to do.

Not if she didn't realise his DNA would identify him.

I am really having a hard time wrapping my head around this response.

So are you saying Amanda was trying to point the police towards Guede because she assumed they'd never be able to identify him?

 

[Vixen]

The absolutely horrible nature of the crime does not in any way excuse the police for their incompetent investigation. On the contrary.

I absolutely don't care that you resent the thought that those innocent people might be able to make money out of their terrible experiences. The result of their wrongful conviction, that they got jailed and the real killer got lesser punishment, is what sickens me.

So what, in your view is the solution?

• Abolish trial by jury/judges courts
• Let the PR agencies slug it out amongst themselves for best press coverage of the case
• Let all the academic scientists argue the case on paper amongs themselves
• Have some kind of 'Pop Idol' voting system wherein the public can vote in the court of Public Opinion (remember the type of kack that gets voted through)

As for 'the real killer got lesser punishment', surely that is one for the politics section, as it is the Italian legislature that democratically decided that defendants in serious crime cases could get a fast track in exchange for an abbreviated trial. Likewise sentencing guidelines. The judge's hands were tied. It had to take into account Guede's age as of the time of the crime and his previous offences. That has nothing to do with Mignini or Guede. The 'kids' could have done the same.

 

[Vixen]

How about the fact that the investigation almost immediately suspected Amanda based, according to Mignini, Giobbi and others, on her behavior, beginning with "the kiss". Because of this, virtually no one else was ever seriously considered. Mignini controlled how the investigation was run, and he almost from the beginning believed Amanda was involved, so why you think it not possible that Mignini couldn't "fix it so that two specific individuals get singled out" escapes me.

I'm curious, have you ever reviewed the fake wiki's "master list" of files? If you have - and I assume you have - then perhaps you could explain why there are dozens of taps, intercepts, etc., on Amanda and Raffaele's phones and conversations, as well as those of family and friends. It just doesn't make any sense to me why all those files exist for those two yet very few for anyone else if everyone was treated the same by the police. You'd think an open minded, honest person would review that list and conclude the police were almost exclusively focused on Amanda and Raffaele, but perhaps I'm looking at this all wrong.

The only things in the court files are those that are passed into evidence. The Italian police do have a habit of tapping people's phones. (Likewise in the UK communications can be intercepted by the national security agents and police need to obtain a special warrant to do so.) Italy is an EU country so there will also be data protection laws in place that protects the privacy of private persons. Criminal Courts of Law tend to be public places and thus transcripts, verdicts and motivational reports are of Public Record.

In addition, it is not at all unusual for police to have a clear idea ofprime suspects quite quickly. Around about a couple of years after the Kercher murder, there was a young American murdered in Siena. The police caught the killer within two days.

I am still not convinced there was anything personal about Knox or Sollecito coming under suspicion.

 

[Vixen]

I am really having a hard time wrapping my head around this response.

So are you saying Amanda was trying to point the police towards Guede because she assumed they'd never be able to identify him?

Knox and Sollecito were anxious to point out to the police that there had been an intruder.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

So what, in your view is the solution?

...

For a kickoff, oblige the police to follow the already-established rules while interviewing suspects so they don't coerce innocent people into signing false statements and leading their investigations into dead ends instead of pursuing the real perpetrators.

I presume you have no objection to this.