Cont: The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VI

[lobosrul5]

It was above the waterline
How does a submarine make a hole anywhere near the waterline?

A Swedish submarine was ordered to take out the MS Estonia from a CIA agent, the captain of the sub knowing that a torpedo would be obvious military action so he blew the tanks at JUST the right moment to ram the Estonia just above the waterline. Since it was a stormy night he knew that water would get in and create a free board effect capsizing the car ferry. This could plausibly be explained by the ramp ripping off and just an accident. Why the captain decided this mission was SO important as to sacrifice himself, his crew, and hundreds of civilians, mostly Swedes... we'll never know. The CIA went to Newport News Virginia shipyards, and with their vast resources had a duplicate sub knocked out in a few days, and sent to the sunk Swede subs homeport. So no civilian ever missed it. A secret assassination and replacement operation of all the Swedish civilian and naval personnel who may have noticed was carried out. Of course all of the workers in the shipyard were extraordinarily disappeared so none could talk. And their families. And their friends. And their families friends.

Yeah, totally plausible.

ETA: oh forgot. Rob Ballard was contracted to "vacuum up" the debris field left by the sub. In exchange for funding his next Titanic dive.

 

[quadraginta]

The submarine that jumped out of the water and holed the Estonia above the waterline then vanished without a trace?!

A good submarine'll do that.

 

[lobosrul5]

Kannad 406F.

Your opinion is not evidence.

Its the Kannad 406AF that is the automatic variety. Yet again, Vixen's own quote contradicts her assertion.

https://safran-navigation-timing.co...elect=Aircraft+Emergency+Locator+Transmitters

 

[Disbelief]

You have been told and have been shown that it was an IMO Chapter 3 regulation [1988] to have an automatic free float EPIRB.

Why do you persist in being obtuse in face of hard documentary evidence? Do you believe your word of the top off your head cancels an irrefutable fact?

What is the default switch position on an EPIRB?

If an auto immersion EPIRB goes into the water, what's the process that sends the signal?

If an auto immersion goes into the water, can that process be overridden so it does not send the signal.

 

[phiwum]

Helsingin Sanomat is classed as a quality paper and it was a direct quote.

I saw no quotation marks. What precisely was a direct quote?

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[phiwum]

You do realize, I hope, that while the Coast Guard has a landline, the Mariella did not.

So you did. The pronoun seemed ambiguous and I misinterpreted your claim.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[Andy_Ross]

What is the default switch position on an EPIRB?

If an auto immersion EPIRB goes into the water, what's the process that sends the signal?

If an auto immersion goes into the water, can that process be overridden so it does not send the signal.

Water activation cannot be overridden by a switch. There is one switch to activate manually.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Water activation cannot be overridden by a switch. There is one switch to activate manually.

Indeed. What keeps somehow slipping Vixen's mind is that water immersion activated beacons can't be turned off.

 

[Andy_Ross]

From the insistence that there was a collision with a submarine which caused the sinking, can we take it that you have abandoned nuclear waste, bombs and crew members opening the bow doors as causes of the disaster?

 

[Here_to_learn]

Turku Coastguard* and Helsinki via Finland Radio were unable to get through to Stockholm until 1:54.

The sequence of events is this.
[...]
Mikko Montonen the Capt.Lt of Turku MRCC picked up the Mayday call - all of which are recorded - at 01:36. His first duty was to mobilise rescue operations locally and a Puma helicopter set off from Turku accordingly.
[...]
At last at circa 01:52 communication was made with nearby Stockholm via Mariehammn in the Ålands, who conveyed the request for additional help.

And there we have the conclusion. The reason that Turku Coastguard were "unable to get through to Stockholm" was because they didn't try until 1:52. They were busy with other things, and since there was only one person on duty getting assistance from Sweden was delayed.

 

[JayUtah]

Its the Kannad 406AF that is the automatic variety. Yet again, Vixen's own quote contradicts her assertion.

We have to be precise in how we phrase it. A beacon may be either or both automatically released from its holder and automatically activated by some physical circumstance like immersion. The two are not the same mechanism nor the same usage of "automatic," but Vixen depends on consistently and deliberately equivocating this.

 

[Here_to_learn]

Just a generic comment in the thread. Although in many countries the coastal radio stations/Rescue centrals are run by the CoastGuard, that is not true in Sweden.

At the time of the sinking it was called MRCC. Today it's JRCC since it's co-located with the Air Rescue. (J = Joint). It belongs to the Swedish Maritime Administration, not to the CoastGuard.

It doesn't really make any difference, but it's more correct to say MRCC instead of Swedish CoastGuard.

 

[Disbelief]

Water activation cannot be overridden by a switch. There is one switch to activate manually.

I know that, I am trying to get her to step through this logically. I think she doesn't understand how they function.

 

[lobosrul5]

We have to be precise in how we phrase it. A beacon may be either or both automatically released from its holder and automatically activated by some physical circumstance like immersion. The two are not the same mechanism nor the same usage of "automatic," but Vixen depends on consistently and deliberately equivocating this.

I sure wish I could find an authoritative source. But it sure seems like the 406F released upon immersion on its own, but didn't not automatically activate, like the 406AF.

Now why would anyone even bother with a beacon that will only release and float on its own, but not activate? It took me perhaps 3 seconds to reason this out. Because an activated buoy still needs to be on the surface to send a radio beacon any useful distance. If a ships in distress, a crewman needs to activate it. But they don't then need to worry about removing it and putting on a lifeboat etc.

Why weren't all of them always immersion activated? Probably needs some sophisticated, by 1994 standards, electronics for that. It can't just be activated by a splash of water or there would be false alarms all the time.

 

[Mojo]

The source is clearly marked: Sven-Anders Eriksson, Aftonbladet 28.9.1994.

It clearly isn't directly from Aftonbladet. It has been edited. If you are claiming that your source for the edited text is Aftonbladet, you are lying.

WHERE DID YOU GET IT FROM?


ETA:

Oh, and because Vixen has probably forgotten what she was claiming to have sourced from Aftonbladet, here's the chain of posts:

Oh, come on now Vixen,

I'm sure that your source for these images:

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53172928635_4dc8d83e17_z.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53172694184_96194853b5_z.jpg[/qimg]

that purport to be evidence of published newspaper stories before and after censorship in furtherance of a governmental cover-up, can't be so embarrassingly untrustworthy that you can't reveal them. I refuse to believe that a researcher of your calibre would post such a thing on faith, and without verification of their veracity.

I can't, therefore, understand your refusal/failure to credit your source.

Unless, perish the thought, you aren't seeing my posts due to an unmentionable forum function. Is this the case?

Just in case it is...

The source is clearly marked: Sven-Anders Eriksson, Aftonbladet 28.9.1994.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

It clearly isn't directly from Aftonbladet. It has been edited. If you are claiming that your source for the edited text is Aftonbladet, you are lying.

WHERE DID YOU GET IT FROM?


ETA:

Oh, and because Vixen has probably forgotten what she was claiming to have sourced from Aftonbladet, here's the chain of posts:

I have a good idea where she got the quotes from, as I suspect does junkshop. Indeed, it's already been pointed out to her that other posters here know where the quotes are from. It's telling that she doesn't want to admit it. HINT: His name has come up before.

ETA: I'm looking at the page right now. It even has the same font and coloring.

 

[Mojo]

I have a good idea where she got the quotes from, as I suspect does junkshop. Indeed, it's already been pointed out to her that other posters here know where the quotes are from. It's telling that she doesn't want to admit it. HINT: His name has come up before.

Perhaps Vixen doesn't remember where she got it from.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

Perhaps Vixen doesn't remember where she got it from.

I'll be happy to remind her.

 

[JayUtah]

It clearly isn't directly from Aftonbladet. It has been edited.

Vixen further stipulated that Aftonbladet does not maintain an archive. It has to be from some secondary source, then. And yes, we know who the source is. Her unwillingness to admit it is deceptive.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

I can confirm that Reformed Offlian is correct in the source.

Well Vixen? Care to illuminate everyone else, or shall we spill the beans for you?