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Cont: The Russian invasion of Ukraine part 7

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quadraginta said:
Or if he could somehow expedite it rather than letting it go through regular channels.
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For a long time, in certain Latin American countires, it was well known untless you wanted something take forever in a government bureau, you gave "a gift" to the official processing is. It even had a nickname "La Mordida"....The Bite.
 
Russia now threatening the use of Nukes in Ukraine.
Time for NATO geo make it clear to Putin that would have very severe consquences. Total Economic isolation for starters.
 
HansMustermann said:
Well, that and it's Shoigu. The guy who never served a single day in the actual army, but got successive promotions from Major General to top rank Army General, by picking the right political side to be on. And who's the dumbest general ever, even after my mile-long thread about complaining about generals like Cadorna, Potiorek and von Hötzendorf in WW1. (And if you missed that, trust me, those guys took being illogical to a whole new level. Shoigu tops it.)

We can only pray that Putin keeps him in charge, just for being a complete fanboy, and allows him to keep working hard to pry defeat from the jaws of victory.

If we ever get him dismissed and replaced by an actual professional general, who earned his promotions and has the experience -- and seriously, even Gerasimov would actually qualify there -- good elder gods help us all... That's when we have to start contemplating that, whelp, it's been good while it lasted, but now Ukraine is toast :p
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A general is no good without a functioning army. You could have put a Napoleon in charge of Russia's offensive in February 2022 and the results wouldn't have been much better than reality.
 
dudalb said:
Russia now threatening the use of Nukes in Ukraine.
Time for NATO geo make it clear to Putin that would have very severe consquences. Total Economic isolation for starters.
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Lol, that would not be the consequences, it would be instant nuking of Moscow and any known nuclear launch sites. We have assets in the Berents sea waiting for such a move.
 
dudalb said:
Russia now threatening the use of Nukes in Ukraine.
Time for NATO geo make it clear to Putin that would have very severe consquences. Total Economic isolation for starters.
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Bravado and bluster in response and to support Trumps nonsensical ravings about Ukraine leading to WWIII, nothing more. Remember, Russia wants another Trump presidency, desperately.
 
Drewbot said:
Lol, that would not be the consequences, it would be instant nuking of Moscow and any known nuclear launch sites. We have assets in the Berents sea waiting for such a move.
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Yes, Russia using WMDs would provoke a nuclear response from Ukraine's allies. We would *not* want to give Putin a free hand.
 
Ian Osborne said:
Yes, Russia using WMDs would provoke a nuclear response from Ukraine's allies. We would *not* want to give Putin a free hand.
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I would add that we probably have shadows on Russia's missile submarines as well. If they did this i would imagine that a Los Angeles class sub is prepared to take out any known Russian Ballistic Missile subs.
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
A general is no good without a functioning army. You could have put a Napoleon in charge of Russia's offensive in February 2022 and the results wouldn't have been much better than reality.
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Well, quite possibly. But I'm also under the (very unscientific) impression that all else being equal about the army, Shoigu is literally worse than having no MOD. At least then you wouldn't see the few competent generals dismissed or sabotaged because their boss wanted the glory for himself, or they weren't agreeing with his dumb ideas, etc.
 
I'm pretty sure the US government made statements last year to the effect of, "we wouldn't bother retaliating with nukes, we'd just use conventional weapons to destroy your military."
 
dudalb said:
Russia now threatening the use of Nukes in Ukraine.
Time for NATO geo make it clear to Putin that would have very severe consquences. Total Economic isolation for starters.
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How is NATO going to unilaterally isolate Russia? Is NATO going to point their guns at India or China to enforce such a blockade?
 
TurkeysGhost said:
How is NATO going to unilaterally isolate Russia? Is NATO going to point their guns at India or China to enforce such a blockade?
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Presumably "NATO" (i.e., "the West" in this context) would point their trade sanctions at China and India if they don't get on board. Honestly, if Moscow starts throwing nukes around, China and India might not even need much convincing.

It's one thing to back the second-ranked bully in the hopes he'll stay strong enough to counterbalance the top-ranked bully. It's another thing entirely to keep backing the second-ranked bully when he starts burning down the neighborhood.
 
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TurkeysGhost said:
How is NATO going to unilaterally isolate Russia? Is NATO going to point their guns at India or China to enforce such a blockade?
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That, or put economic pressure on China and India. No more trading with Russia, or no more trading with any NATO countries... the latter is far far far more important to their economies than Russia.
 
theprestige said:
Presumably "NATO" (i.e., "the West" in this context) would point their trade sanctions at China and India if they don't get on board.
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open question how many members of NATO are really wiling to totally sever their supply lines through China or India, considering how economically disastrous that would be. These sanction threats would be huge bluffs that I'm not sure anyone actually wants to follow through on.

Sanctions work best against pissant countries whose economic output is negligible.

Any realistic approach to increasing economic sanctions against Russia would require the willing cooperation of non-NATO countries, which could be feasible if they actually deployed a nuclear weapon.
 
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