The Infinite! In Search of The Ultimate Truth.

[Matthew Ellard]

You have a funny way of linking every experiment in the world with the conclusion that it "debunks" Infinitism.

That's because the actual real world experiments actually do that.

Your hilarious claim that photons are little balls bouncing off particles, would not cause wave interference patterns in the two slit photon experiment. The photon packets are waves.

You also have the hilarious claim that one photon particle can be a wave. How?

Electrons, atoms and small molecules have been shown to behave as waves, but that does not mean they are.

No. Only waves cause wave interference patterns.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

You still haven't answered why photons do not "travel" from the "suns" in a straight line but in waves.

You really are very very ignorant. "Red Shift" exists as stars recede away from earth due to wave doppler effect on photon light waves.

In physics, redshift is a phenomenon where electromagnetic radiation (such as light) from an object undergoes an increase in wavelength. Whether or not the radiation is visible, "redshift" means an increase in wavelength, equivalent to a decrease in wave frequency and photon energy, in accordance with, respectively, the wave and quantum theories of light.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshift

Don't post anymore nonsense until you have read this webpage, the basic experiments and how photon electromagnetic waves from distant stars are red shifted.

 

[tazanastazio]

According to your "God is infinity" religion...... how can a particle on its own, appear as a wave.

Your claim makes no sense at all.

When the double slit experiment was conducted with electrons, they did not land on the same areas; when collected with single electron detectors it showed that they too had formed the interference effect. The areas occupied by the electrons, as with the photons, due to interfering other particles (the existence of which you deny), form bumps/fields of influnce, causing the electrons that come later towards those areas, to skip them and form intermittent areas of concentration and create the "interference" effect.

The only purpose of the two slits on the first surface, is to concentrate the photons/electrons on the specific areas in the vicinity immediately infront of them on the second surface. If there were no other particles, there would be no fields of energy generated upon and through them, there would be no obstacle preventing the even spread of photons/electrons; we would not have the interference phenomenon.

A single photon is not a wave in itself, its movement from particle to particle together with the movement of the other photons in the chain is what we view as a wave.

Now check this out: when photons leave a star they are passed along from particle to particle; it is this movement which gives the appearance of a wave/ray beam. Now as this wave occurs it generates energy on particles in what would be a direct line o vision from every angle (by zone particle jump of a particle within a particle or what have you). Further other such waves (lesser energy of course) are generated, that is why that light ray would be visible in darkness (absence of any light source) from every angle of view. Some energy is lost and this is why the particular light ray would not have the same effect to an observer viewing the ray/wave of light from a position near the star or a position light years away.

Nove of the above would be the case if space was void of such smaller particles, the existence of which you deny.

Planck's constant isbased on shortest movement possible by photons as far as Planck could imagine/calculate, yet that distance can in turn be divided infinitely; after all, there are infinitely smaller particles, than the "energy package" we call a "photon."

 

[tazanastazio]

You really are very very ignorant. "Red Shift" exists as stars recede away from earth due to wave doppler effect on photon light waves.

In physics, redshift is a phenomenon where electromagnetic radiation (such as light) from an object undergoes an increase in wavelength. Whether or not the radiation is visible, "redshift" means an increase in wavelength, equivalent to a decrease in wave frequency and photon energy, in accordance with, respectively, the wave and quantum theories of light.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshift

Don't post anymore nonsense until you have read this webpage, the basic experiments and how photon electromagnetic waves from distant stars are red shifted.

Any difference in wavelength/frequency is precisely due to size/type of a interfering particles, if they did not exist as you claim, photons would be slingshot in a straight fashion, like a bullet or an arrow; no amplitude, no frequency no wavelength; none whatsoever, period.

 

[tazanastazio]

You really are very very ignorant. "Red Shift" exists as stars recede away from earth due to wave doppler effect on photon light waves.

In physics, redshift is a phenomenon where electromagnetic radiation (such as light) from an object undergoes an increase in wavelength. Whether or not the radiation is visible, "redshift" means an increase in wavelength, equivalent to a decrease in wave frequency and photon energy, in accordance with, respectively, the wave and quantum theories of light.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshift

Don't post anymore nonsense until you have read this webpage, the basic experiments and how photon electromagnetic waves from distant stars are red shifted.

Just because you disagree with me, does not mean you are correct. Here's the proof:

No. Only waves cause wave interference patterns.

"Other atomic-scale entities, such as electrons, are found to exhibit the same behavior when fired towards a double slit...The experiment can be done with entities much larger than electrons and photons, although it becomes more difficult as size increases."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment#Overview


"Wave-particle duality has been observed with electrons, atoms and small molecules."

https://physicsworld.com/a/wave-particle-duality-seen-in-carbon-60-molecules/

'Researchers have sent molecules containing either 58 or 114 atoms through the so-called "double-slit experiment," showing that they cause an interference pattern that can only be explained if the particles act like waves of water, rather than tiny marbles.'

https://www.livescience.com/19268-quantum-double-slit-experiment-largest-molecules.html

 

[Matthew Ellard]

When the double slit experiment was conducted with electrons, they did not land on the same areas.

That's right because when the split electron waves hits the screen the wave is measured by hitting the screen. That's why you get wave interference patterns as the split wave forms interfere with each other.

Are you saying you didn't even understand that?

...due to interfering other particles.

No. The photon's electromagnetic wave frequency causes the interference patterns.

Your hilarious "God is infinity" religion only has individual particles. So how do the individual particles know what the other particle' frequency is?

How can one particle have a wave frequency.

You simply don't have a clue what any of these words mean.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

when photons leave a star they are passed along from particle to particle

There are no particles in the vacuum between stars.

According to your hilarious claim individual particles would slow down as they hit "magic space particles" and there would not be a consistent frequency across the entire light wave.

; it is this movement which gives the appearance of a wave/ray beam.

The cones in your eye evolved to particular sizes to pick up specific light wave frequencies.

Are you really saying you don't know how a colour TV works?

Go away and read about how cones in eyes receive electromagnetic light frequencies instead of embarrassing yourself in public.

 

[tazanastazio]

That's right because when the split electron waves hits the screen the wave is measured by hitting the screen. That's why you get wave interference patterns as the split wave forms interfere with each other.

Are you saying you didn't even understand that?

No. The photon's electromagnetic wave frequency causes the interference patterns.

Your hilarious "God is infinity" religion only has individual particles. So how do the individual particles know what the other particle' frequency is?

How can one particle have a wave frequency.

You simply don't have a clue what any of these words mean.

No what I said is the photon affects particles in a chain manner you call electromagnetic wave frequency.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

tazanastazio doesn't understand red shift

Any difference in wavelength/frequency is precisely due to size/type of a interfering particles

No, that is just stupid. the redshift is the same across the entire light wave.

According to your hilarious "God is infinity" religion, individual "photon particles" would be slowed at different rates as they hit other "magic particles" and thus there would be a random frequency. There isn't.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

"Other atomic-scale entities, such as electrons, are found to exhibit the same behavior when fired towards a double slit...The experiment can be done with entities much larger than electrons and photons, although it becomes more difficult as size increases."

That's right and the largest molecule wave form contained 2,000 atoms in 2019. This same experiment is being discussed in the other thread.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=338655&page=39

That is exactly proof of quantum mechanics and eliminates your ridiculous claim that photons, electrons and atoms are "little balls that bounce off each other."

 

[Matthew Ellard]

No what I said is the photon affects particles in a chain manner you call electromagnetic wave frequency.

How can one particle maintain a set frequency bouncing off other particles.

Can you see how hilarious your religious claim is?

 

[tazanastazio]

How can one particle maintain a set frequency bouncing off other particles.

Can you see how hilarious your religious claim is?

I didn't say they "bounced", I said they were passed along (they are spherical particles afterall, not solid mirrors), if they had bounced they would have changed course; I also said as they were passed along, they also generated other chain action to particles, causing further particle jumps within them, or lossing energy which was also passed along fron particle to particle; that is why ever photon has its own "electromagnetic" effect and causes its own wave (chain movement from particle to particle); and that is why a beam of light/wave (chain movement of photons), in a sense every photon, can be observed simultaneously from every angle of view, in utter darkness.

tazanastazio doesn't understand red shift
No, that is just stupid. the redshift is the same across the entire light wave.

According to your hilarious "God is infinity" religion, individual "photon particles" would be slowed at different rates as they hit other "magic particles" and thus there would be a random frequency. There isn't.

Where exactly within the vast distances of space did you measure, to compare the variety of particles in between and therefore the change in frequency and amplitude?

When are you going to answer why the photons travel in a wavy fashion and not in a straight line, after they had been slingshot from the suns, with energy enormous enough to transverse billions of light years of distances through an "empty" space; why do the travel like eels and not instead like bullets, arrows or even slingshot pebbles?

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Where exactly within the vast distances of space did you measure, to compare the variety of particles in between and therefore the change in frequency and amplitude?

You really aren't getting basic physics.

1) There are no particles in a vacuum in space.
2) The entire light wave is red-shifted across the entire wave.
3) If there were bouncing "photon balls" for photons, as your religion claims, different balls would have paths, hit different particles and there would be no consistent frequency.
4) Our eyes have evolved cones that have a particular size to match the light wave frequency.

Try reading this really really basic summary

Eye Cone cells
Cone cells, or cones, are photoreceptor cells in the retinas of vertebrate eyes (e.g. the human eye). They respond differently to light of different wavelengths,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_cell

Are you now denying eyes have cone cells?

 

[Matthew Ellard]

I didn't say they "bounced", I said they were passed along, if they had bounced they would have changed course

How does an electron "pass along" a photon if all electrons are spinning at different orbits?

You also seem to deny the existence of polarised light (Yep....sunglasses) where the light wave is filtered into discrete angles.

Try reading this really really basic explanation.

How Stuff Works / Polarization
A polarized filter passes only the light that does not match its orientation.
Only the part of the light wave that is not aligned with the slots in the filter can pass through. Everything else is absorbed. The light coming through the filter is considered polarized.
https://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/everyday-innovations/sunglass6.htm

 

[tazanastazio]

How does an electron "pass along" a photon if all electrons are spinning at different orbits?

You also seem to deny the existence of polarised light (Yep....sunglasses) where the light wave is filtered into discrete angles.

Try reading this really really basic explanation.

How Stuff Works / Polarization
A polarized filter passes only the light that does not match its orientation.
Only the part of the light wave that is not aligned with the slots in the filter can pass through. Everything else is absorbed. The light coming through the filter is considered polarized.
https://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/everyday-innovations/sunglass6.htm

They are spherical fluid particles, not solid mirror-like surfaces. As photons are shot from the light sources (suns) with enormous energy the pass through them in a wave motion (slide basically through them); particles help along the way or slightly interfere (friction/energy lost as heat/a newly generated electomagnetic light wave); light slides (not bounces) through in a wavy motion regardless.

Your turn to explain:

Why the photons travel in a wavy fashion and not in a straight line, after they had been slingshot from the suns, with energy enormous enough to transverse billions of light years of distances through an "empty" space; why do the travel like eels and not instead like bullets, arrows or even slingshot pebbles?

And what in the world have "polarized surfaces" that redirect the course of lightwaves, have anything to do with the above; or mirrors, or lenses in binoculars, or contact lenses for that matter.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

They (photons) are spherical fluid particles, not solid mirror-like surfaces. As photons are shot from the light sources (suns) with enormous energy the pass through them in a wave motion (slide basically through them); particles help along the way or slightly interfere (friction/energy lost as heat/a newly generated electomagnetic light wave); light slides (not bounces) through in a wavy motion regardless.

No. That is complete rubbish from start to finish.

1) Eyes evolved cones that are the exact size to absorb specific light wave frequencies, NOT little balls of photons as your religion claims. That is why you can't explain the different sizes of Red Blue Green cones in the eye.

2) Polarised glasses filter out light waves at angles by having angular filters. Your silly religion cannot explain how the angled slat filters in polaroid glasses filter out individual "photon balls"

3) Red shift is equal across the entire light waves being slowed by Doppler effect, Whereas your religion claims individual "photon balls" would all be slowed at different rates and thus not have a shared frequency, which isn't what happens in the real world.

4) Your religion claims the distance between stars is filled with an infinite number of particles, with no gaps meaning, no "photon balls" could get through anyway.

And what in the world have "polarized surfaces" that redirect the course of lightwaves,

They don't. The slat filters in polarised glass blocks out light waves at certain angles.

You have just informed everyone on the forum that you don't believe in Polaroid glasses.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Why the photons travel in a wavy fashion and not in a straight line, after they had been slingshot from the suns, with energy enormous enough to transverse billions of light years of distances through an "empty" space; why do the travel like eels and not instead like bullets, arrows or even slingshot pebbles?

Because hydrogen fusion ( A sun) emits electromagnetic photon wave forms at a particular frequency. If the sun is moving away from the observer the light waves are red shifted.

You don't seem to know anything about how photons are emitted by changes in electron orbit as energy is added. Ever wonder why copper burns green?

"When you set Copper on fire, at the atomic level you're adding energy to the electrons, causing them to become excited. ... That energy is released in the form of a photon of a specific wavelength - in the case of copper, a wavelength that corresponds to the blue-green color that you see"

There are thousands of experiments proving all this and you simply refuse to accept all this evidence as it conflicts with your religious belief.

Explain this one minute video using your "photons are little balls claim"
A simple way of observing polarised glass
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AusZyCexBeI

 

[tazanastazio]

Because hydrogen fusion ( A sun) emits electromagnetic photon wave forms at a particular frequency. If the sun is moving away from the observer the light waves are red shifted.

That does not explain why light continues throughout the vastness of space to move in a wavy (eel like) motion; as opposed to a straight (bullet, arrow, slingshot pebble even) after it was actually slingshot with an astronomically enormous energy and force. You ask for direct answers, but this bullflaky one brings to mind the example of playing with a water hose (or a whip or a rope). You can set the water/whip/rope set to move in a wavy motion (since molecules of water/whip/rope are strung together), but photons are not strung/bound together; are they? Sure you can say as the sun moves away the whip is stretched affecting the amplitude/ frequency and wavelength, and shrunk as the sun moves closer; but we are not talking about one ray (on whip); but infinite going in all directions; how is it then that the Doppler effect is the same in all directions? It would make more sense to go with the slingshot photons theory, which are unattached to each other, and as they are passed on from particle to particle they appear as a wave of the corresponding frequency (Doppler effect still the same since the sun moved after the photons were shot out); as opposed to infinite vibrating sources on the surface of the sun causing photons to whip-wave their way through the vastness of space in all directions (the sun moves, what happens to those infinite hair like tentacles - move backwards with the universal winds/movement of the sun? Sure they are still not connected to the source throughout the length of their vast travel, but at least they are beamed in intervals while the source moves at high speeds through the Universe - which would cause inconsistency in the light emitted, and concentration of the rays to one side, like in the movement of a comet or a fire ball).

You don't seem to know anything about how photons are emitted by changes in electron orbit as energy is added. Ever wonder why copper burns green?

I have referred to electrons jumping energy levels before.

"When you set Copper on fire, at the atomic level you're adding energy to the electrons, causing them to become excited. ... That energy is released in the form of a photon of a specific wavelength - in the case of copper, a wavelength that corresponds to the blue-green color that you see"[/I]

There are thousands of experiments proving all this and you simply refuse to accept all this evidence as it conflicts with your religious belief.

Nothing, of everything you have stated so far; correct, partially correct, or otherwise; conflicts or "debunks" Infinitism (which again is a philosophy not a religion).

1) Eyes evolved cones that are the exact size to absorb specific light wave frequencies, NOT little balls of photons as your religion claims. That is why you can't explain the different sizes of Red Blue Green cones in the eye.

We can get to evolution later; for now I wonder why the cells of our ancestors did not put on the drawing board, wings; since it seems we found them to be quite useful; and took us quite the effort and sacrifice to finally be able to fly.

Explain this one minute video using your "photons are little balls claim"
A simple way of observing polarised glass
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AusZyCexBeI

2) Polarised glasses filter out light waves at angles by having angular filters. Your silly religion cannot explain how the angled slat filters in polaroid glasses filter out individual "photon balls"

Molecular surfaces filtering the light-wave based on direction; but it has nothing to do with anything I have stated, because as I have already said, the type of wave depends on type of particles on the surface of the source forming it (energy level remaining after the original same photon, from the same source/sun, interacted with a surface (was absorbed by the surface) of particular particles; emitting energy left, which corresponds to particular energy level/frequency/amplitude/color. Also the particles involved in photons passing through/or being passed along by them) affect the changes in frequency/amplitude/ wave-length. Some photons will be set in a particular wavy motion, others in another. The molecular polarized surfaces along with the surface of water, absorb light-waves based on direction (some sunglasses absorb certain frequencies too, that is why color of vision is altered).

Because hydrogen fusion ( A sun) emits electromagnetic photon wave forms at a particular frequency. If the sun is moving away from the observer the light waves are red shifted.

3) Red shift is equal across the entire light waves being slowed by Doppler effect, Whereas your religion claims individual "photon balls" would all be slowed at different rates and thus not have a shared frequency, which isn't what happens in the real world.

If all the stars in the Universe move away from me at similar and astronomically vast distances, what ability would I have to discern any difference in frequency by any means; naked eye or otherwise?

Also as I have already mentioned, we see a particular color, because that particular energy level is emitted from the particular particles of the particular surface (loss of energy level leaving the remaining to be emitted, which corresponds to a particular color); that energy level is perhaps further passed on (rolls/slides through/is reflected/bounces) by particles corresponding to the given frequency/amplitude/energy level.

4) Your religion claims the distance between stars is filled with an infinite number of particles, with no gaps meaning, no "photon balls" could get through anyway.

The reason light makes it through despite particles being in the way is simply because those particles are not part of a solid wall, they are infinitely minute, and they comprise the fluid fabric of space, and what is called the void. The rest is energy. How do I know that? Again because simply there cannot be any absolute gaps (I've already explained why).

You have just informed everyone on the forum that you don't believe in Polaroid glasses.

No, I have a couple of pairs. They work great! I recommend them.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

That does not explain why light continues throughout the vastness of space to move in a wavy (eel like) motion

Light waves do not move like an "electric eel". They are electromagnetic waves emitted by an electron changing orbit. They can and do move in a straight line. So you have never heard of a laser, which is a light wave travelling in a straight line. ?

Do you know anything about science or the real world at all?

None of everything you have stated so far; correct, partially correct, or otherwise conflicts or "debunks" Infinitism (which again is a philosophy not a religion).

Every experiment I have shown you debunks your "God is infinities" religious nonsense. That's why you can find any holes in these well known experiments that prove visible light is an electromagnetic wave.

We can get to evolution later; for now I wonder why the cells of our ancestors did not put on the drawing board, wings; since it seems we found them to be quite useful; and took us quite the effort and sacrifice to finally be able to fly.

We didn't evolve from birds. We evolved from mammals. Birds evolved from dinosaurs.

You don't actually have a clue what evolution is, either, do you?

Molecular surfaces filtering the light-wave based on direction; but it has nothing to do with anything I have stated

Yes it does. If photons were little balls, as your religion claims, then Polaroid glasses would not filter out horizontal light waves. All the "little balls" would go through the slats regardless of what angle the slats were.

Are you saying you are still struggling with how Polaroid glasses work?

If all the stars in the Universe move away from me at similarly large distances, what ability would I have to discern any difference in frequency by any means; naked eye or otherwise.

Changing frequency in red shift due to Doppler effect. That how we know what stars are further away in our expanding universe .

Didn't you even know that?

The reason light makes it through despite particles being in the way is simply because those particles are not part of a solid wall, they are infinitely minute,

Two days ago you said there were no gaps. Now you are saying there are gaps. Your zany "God is infinities" religion is just a mess of conflicting religious claims.


Give up. A hamster knows more about basic science than you do.

 

[tazanastazio]

Light waves do not move like an "electric eel". They are electromagnetic waves emitted by an electron changing orbit. They can and do move in a straight line. So you have never heard of a laser, which is a light wave travelling in a straight line. ?

Nice picture; now perhaps you can explain why it is that you can see that green laser beam from all angles of view.

Give up. A hamster knows more about basic science than you do.

What benefit is scientific knowledge if one doesn't put good common sense to use?