Tai Chi Chuan: Useful or bogus?

[Nihilanth]

Hey, I'm not sure if this is the right place for this, but since it deals with skepticism, I guess it fits here. Anyway...

I've been hearing a lot about Tai Chi lately (seemingly years behind of everyone else on this planet, apparently). I always thought it was just one more way to part someone from their money, but realizing that a fully closed mind is just as worthless as a fully open one, I thought I'd give it a try. Alas, upon realizing one of the forms was entitled "Pushing the Monkey", I fell into a paroxysm of juvenile laughter and could not proceed.

So, I was wondering: does anyone here have any kind of source they can point me to that would answer my question? Lacking that (or in case this devolves into a semantic free-for-all), does anyone know where I can go to learn some of this stuff so I can try it out for myself, see if it works? I mean, I like to check out the woo stuff for myself instead of trusting other people's opinions, and it's worked so far with magic with a K (it's crap), ghost hunting (more crap) and astral travelling (this one's true but, alas, I left my body lying in kind of an undignified position and have been too embarrased to return. I'm currently being channeled by a school janitor, which is not much of an improvement) (I'm joking, it's crap). Of course, I'd like this introductory stuff to be free, since there's no way I'm paying any amount of money for something that probably just makes you look silly.

Heh. Pushing the Monkey. ...DAMN! I thought I'd gone past that already!

 

[MG1962]

Well I cant point you to specific references, but both my parents have been doing it for about 10 years. Both are in their mid 70's and feel the exercises are excellent for their arthritis.

I guess the best way to describe Tai Chi is very low impact areobics.

 

[Jekyll]

Useful for what?

If we're just talking about the slow movements then, yes, it's just slow moving impact free exercise with a fair bit of built in stretching.

Obviously, it's better for you than sitting on your arse all day, and it can be kept up into old age, but there are better ways to get in shape and it's definitely not a fitness program in itself.

 

[T'ai Chi]

Alas, upon realizing one of the forms was entitled "Pushing the Monkey", I fell into a paroxysm of juvenile laughter and could not proceed.

Just lost in translation type of stuff. A lot of names make perfect sense in Chinese or sound cool poetry-wise, but when translated into English do sound funny. I think the one you're referring to, typically called Repulsing the Monkey,.. is supposed to imagine that you're a monkey pushing or swinging, not that you're pushing a monkey away.

So, I was wondering: does anyone here have any kind of source they can point me to that would answer my question? Lacking that (or in case this devolves into a semantic free-for-all),

This is a pretty good resource:

http://www.krapu4.com/taichi/research/tairesum.htm

magic with a K (it's crap), ghost hunting (more crap) and astral travelling (this one's true but,

If you're equating taijiquan with magik, ghost hunting, and astral travelling I'm afraid you're biased/jaded from the start. Think of it as an exercise for balance, grace, some martial application, a wayto relax, and just a way to socialize and have fun that you can do your entire lifespan (that last one is really important!).

And don't worry how you look when doing it for Pete's sake; its totally irrelevant. First, it doesn't look that bad, second, you're grace will improve, and third, a lot of activities look sillier (like when I
m in yoga class with my mouth open, tongue sticking straight out, and breathing really fast for 20 times).

 

[elaine]

........If you're equating taijiquan with magik, ghost hunting, and astral travelling I'm afraid you're biased/jaded from the start. Think of it as an exercise for balance, grace, some martial application, a wayto relax, and just a way to socialize and have fun that you can do your entire lifespan (that last one is really important!).

And don't worry how you look when doing it for Pete's sake; its totally irrelevant. First, it doesn't look that bad, second, you're grace will improve, and third, a lot of activities look sillier (like when I
m in yoga class with my mouth open, tongue sticking straight out, and breathing really fast for 20 times).

What Tai Chi said. I did tai chi years ago, and I remember enjoying it as a way to make myself to slow down and be more in the moment, and less klutzy.

Now skydiving does the same thing for me.

I get more out of yoga, but ignore the more wooish claims that come up.

 

[Jekyll]

Just lost in translation type of stuff. A lot of names make perfect sense in Chinese or sound cool poetry-wise, but when translated into English do sound funny. I think the one you're referring to, typically called Repulsing the Monkey,.. is supposed to imagine that you're a monkey pushing or swinging, not that you're pushing a monkey away.

Not conventionally.
It's more that someone (the monkey) has charged in to grab you, so you do something like this.

http://www.judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/osotogari.htm

Hence "repulse the monkey" not "repulse like a monkey" which typically involves more poo flinging.

 

[ponderingturtle]

What Tai Chi said. I did tai chi years ago, and I remember enjoying it as a way to make myself to slow down and be more in the moment, and less klutzy.

Now skydiving does the same thing for me.

I get more out of yoga, but ignore the more wooish claims that come up.

It is ammazing, Tai Chi said something that has actual content and not just that someone was interesting or that critisism did not meet with his standards to be worth refuting.

 

[elaine]

I knew there was something wacky here.


Please, don't hurt me TC

 

[Miss Whiplash]

It's a great low impact exercise. It does help improve flexibility and balance.

 

[jon]

If you're equating taijiquan with magik, ghost hunting, and astral travelling I'm afraid you're biased/jaded from the start. Think of it as an exercise for balance, grace, some martial application, a wayto relax, and just a way to socialize and have fun that you can do your entire lifespan (that last one is really important!).

Not to disappoint ponderingturtle... Some aspects of the 'traditional' practice of t'ai chi do seem to be magical thinking: for example, the belief that chi is real and the exercises somehow move it.

Of course, the more sensible instructors and students often ignore this, and, as others have said, t'ai chi can be a good low impact exercise, way to relax, etc. There are alternatives, though - if you enjoy t'ai chi, great; if it seems silly, boring etc. than you could always try something else...

 

[Yahzi]

there are better ways to get in shape

Only if you do them.

If the only program you're going to actually stick with is Tai Chi, then that makes Tai Chi the best program for you.

Let me just join the bizzaro train and add, "What T'ai Chi said."

 

[Nihilanth]

Hey, thanks a lot, guys. That actually answered all my questions and more; I guess I should have been more clear in the first place, though. I figured it probably helped build flexibility, and I wasn't arguing the balance claim. I was wondering about the claims about helping circulation and helping against arthritis, but then again I guess I'd actually have to have arthritis first to test that one out. And I never really bought into the chi stuff from the start, so THAT'S okay.

Well I cant point you to specific references, but both my parents have been doing it for about 10 years. Both are in their mid 70's and feel the exercises are excellent for their arthritis.

Well, that answers that, then.

Useful for what?

If we're just talking about the slow movements then, yes, it's just slow moving impact free exercise with a fair bit of built in stretching.

Obviously, it's better for you than sitting on your arse all day, and it can be kept up into old age, but there are better ways to get in shape and it's definitely not a fitness program in itself.

Yeah, I figured as much. I just wasn't sure it was an all that great way to get into shape in the first place. I mean, I have a kind of unique problem in that I'm working nights and not really used to it yet, so a lot of times I'm either asleep or at work. I don't really have time to get into an exercise regimen, which sucks because I really should. Tai Chi sounded like something I could pick up and do before I went to work or something.

This is a pretty good resource:

http://www.krapu4.com/taichi/research/tairesum.htm

Thanks, I'll check that out.
HA, who would have thought it? The guy with Tai Chi as his handle would know about Tai Chi.

If you're equating taijiquan with magik, ghost hunting, and astral travelling I'm afraid you're biased/jaded from the start.

Yeah, I kind of am. But I wasn't really linking Tai chi with any of those things; it was more of the kind of thing where I tried those things out for myself, found they were bogus, and now I wanted to try Tai Chi out. Mostly because I figured I'd get better results this time around.

Think of it as an exercise for balance, grace, some martial application, a wayto relax, and just a way to socialize and have fun that you can do your entire lifespan (that last one is really important!).

That's pretty much all I was going for, so that's good to hear.

And don't worry how you look when doing it for Pete's sake; its totally irrelevant. First, it doesn't look that bad, second, you're grace will improve, and third, a lot of activities look sillier (like when I
m in yoga class with my mouth open, tongue sticking straight out, and breathing really fast for 20 times).

Oh, I'm not worried about that at all. I assume most people are like me in that when they see someone doing Tai Chi, they don't say anything because of the creeping suspicion that they're ninjas and could easily destroy me.

Now skydiving does the same thing for me.

I get more out of yoga, but ignore the more wooish claims that come up.

Yeah...I'd rather do something that won't wind up with me smeared over ten feet of countryside, so I'll stick to the Tai Chi. But Yoga works better for you, you say?

Not to disappoint ponderingturtle... Some aspects of the 'traditional' practice of t'ai chi do seem to be magical thinking: for example, the belief that chi is real and the exercises somehow move it.

Of course, the more sensible instructors and students often ignore this, and, as others have said, t'ai chi can be a good low impact exercise, way to relax, etc. There are alternatives, though - if you enjoy t'ai chi, great; if it seems silly, boring etc. than you could always try something else...

That's pretty much what I read in Wikipedia, which got me interested in the whole thing all over again. Flexibility and balance = cool. Chi flow and crazy magical powers = not so much.

If the only program you're going to actually stick with is Tai Chi, then that makes Tai Chi the best program for you.

Yeah...see, I work moving boxes all day, which is kind of a workout by itself, and like I said, I don't really have time for anything else. I thought Tai Chi would be a good complement to lugging around hundred pound cases of furniture all day.

 

[RemieV]

Tai Chi video tutorial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6WyGxWBdc8

 

[elaine]

I prefer yoga, but I can see myself giving tai chi another shot, just to mix it up a bit. I get bored, otherwise.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Not to disappoint ponderingturtle...

My comment was dirrected at Tai Chi the person not Tai Chi the practice, just look at some of the threads he starts, but never says anything definite. So he never presents a proper arguement so you can not effectively argue with him.

 

[firecoins]

I do tai chi. It was originally a martial art, born out of kung fu. As it Westernized, the martial art aspect is seldom known by instructor much less taught.

Tai Chi is a moving mediation. Instructors talk about a mysterious "chi" force which I ignore. I take chi to mean correct posture. Because it is a movinh meditation, its been found to reduce stress, increase focus, improve joint health and in some cases improve depression. It does NOT cure cancer. Most practioners practise the meditation well into their later years. They seem to keep limber compared to those who do not.

 

[thaiboxerken]

It's garbage. You're better off learning a fighting art if you want to learn how to fight or going to the gym if you want exercise OR going to an MMA gym if you want both. Tai Chi is full of nonsense people that will tell you that Chi is "real" and that you'll learn superpowers by learning Tai Chi. In reality, it's just a slow motion exercise for Chinese senior citizens.

 

[clarsct]

Well, it's useless to FIGHT with.

As an exercise it's no sillier than Jazzercise or that silliness promoted by Richard Simmons....

 

[Nihilanth]

It's garbage. You're better off learning a fighting art if you want to learn how to fight or going to the gym if you want exercise OR going to an MMA gym if you want both. Tai Chi is full of nonsense people that will tell you that Chi is "real" and that you'll learn superpowers by learning Tai Chi. In reality, it's just a slow motion exercise for Chinese senior citizens.

Well, see, I'm not really looking on how to fight OR looking for a gym. I'm looking for some kind of low-impact workout to complement the exercise I regularly experience at work. I thought Tai Chi would fit the bill as far as stretching, increasing limberness and balance goes. I'm really not at all sure where you got the idea that anyone here was taking the idea of "chi" seriously, as I'm pretty sure all of us made it clear that we don't really believe in such an idea. I mean, I understand that you might be a pretty busy person, but sometimes it's a good idea to actually read the message instead of just the thread name.

 

[T'ai Chi]

Well, it's useless to FIGHT with.

As an exercise it's no sillier than Jazzercise or that silliness promoted by Richard Simmons....

Experiences differ obviously. I've found it quite useful in self defense in real life.