"Magic" Tai Chi Powers

[Wudang]

I'm guessing crim meant to write "Adam Mizner".

 

[Wudang]

Asking them questions about martial arts is preparing them.

I'm pretty sure I'd be nervous about any approach from a stranger if I stepped into that room after being asked such questions, making it highly likely that I'd jump back - no paranormal powers would be required.

Recruit from a judo club? No ki/qui training at all but good level of body awareness?

 

[crimresearch]

I'm not sure if you are trolling or joking or haven't watched the videos or what. You clearly have some “clue as to who Michael Phillips is” from your 2nd post in this thread:




As far as "no bio-mechanical factors":

Mysteries of Tai Chi Chuan - Part 1 of 3, time stamp 8:44.




And throughout this video series he speaks of the "mystery” of Tai Chi, and the “energy” and being able to “lift” the person off the ground. Phillips even explains (Part 1, 6:50) that this is not just applying force that pushes somebody over where they stumble back, but rather actually where

Thanks, I in fact skipped around, and I didn't spend the time to go through the whole batch, once I saw how he was doing what he was doing, which was an obvious elementary bounce and some other tricks like the ones explained earlier.

Is he so famous that not knowing who he is looks like trolling?

It was the OP who brought him up... they said they couldn't post the links, so I did it for them.
Other than that I've never heard of Michael Phillips.

I know who Peter Ralston is, I know who Mike Sigman is, I know who Tsung Hwa Jou was, Douglas Wile etc.
I know who many people in Taiji are, either in person or by reputation (some good some not so good)... but I still don't know who Michael Phillips is.

 

[crimresearch]

I'm guessing crim meant to write "Adam Mizner".

Seriously, are these people suddenly famous?

I don't spend any time at all these days keeping up with Who's Who in the neijia world, I just practice, and rarely do any taiji...
(One of the side effects of Tai Chi practice is that it makes you look like a 90 year old Chinese guy in only about 40 years... )

 

[Orphia Nay]

Recruit from a judo club? No ki/qui training at all but good level of body awareness?

Possibly, but I suspect a heightened defense mechanism might effect the outcome.

OP, what's wrong with getting Chi skeptics to be subjects?

 

[Wudang]

Seriously, are these people suddenly famous?

I don't spend any time at all these days keeping up with Who's Who in the neijia world, I just practice, and rarely do any taiji...
(One of the side effects of Tai Chi practice is that it makes you look like a 90 year old Chinese guy in only about 40 years... )

No sorry, never heard of either. Misunderstanding.

 

[Stigweard]

"Methods used The test is structured as close to a double-blind as possible. The main test subject, referred to as the Demonstrator, will be attempting to perform fajin on randomly selected, unknowing and unprepared test subjects within a controlled environment.

...

"Test subjects would be asked a simply lead-in questionnaire as to their knowledge and experience of martial arts, in particular Chinese IMA. This will be used to correlate post-test data."


Asking them questions about martial arts is preparing them.

I'm pretty sure I'd be nervous about any approach from a stranger if I stepped into that room after being asked such questions, making it highly likely that I'd jump back - no paranormal powers would be required.

Yup fair point ;-)

Still watching, reading, taking notes, and preparing 2nd draft ;-)

 

[mike3]

If those videos are the Michael Phillips ones, 'bounce jin' and so on are real things. There is definitely physical force being used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMcZddqmvw8&feature=relmfu

The counterintuitive part is how can a smaller/older person make a slight twitch, and get such an explosive reaction from a larger/younger person?

In the same manner that people can perform other unusual feats of physical prowess... lots of specialized training and practice, to the point of re-'shaping' their physiology.
Acrobats, dancers, sword swallowers, contortionists, Olympic athletes for example.

Don't forget exceptional genetics, too. And also, not missing the "critical period" in early childhood. So all three of those are required.

 

[mike3]

If those videos are the Michael Phillips ones, 'bounce jin' and so on are real things. There is definitely physical force being used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMcZddqmvw8&feature=relmfu

The counterintuitive part is how can a smaller/older person make a slight twitch, and get such an explosive reaction from a larger/younger person?

In the same manner that people can perform other unusual feats of physical prowess... lots of specialized training and practice, to the point of re-'shaping' their physiology.
Acrobats, dancers, sword swallowers, contortionists, Olympic athletes for example.

Don't forget exceptional genetics, too. And also, not missing the "critical period" in early childhood. So all three of those are required.

 

[wardenclyffe]

Just checking in here to see if Stigweard has approached any of the practitioners about being tested yet.

Ward

 

[Moss]

*sets up the Phrost signal*

 

[Wudang]

I'll ring Dan Docherty and see if he's stocked up on water.

 

[ugot2bekidding]

OK so here is the draft protocol:

Whilst some IMA practice and demonstrate a form of fajin that is merely a superior coordination of bio-mechanics to release a sudden impulse of physical force (search for "Chen Xiang's Bajiquan scientific" on Youtube), within styles like Tai Chi Chuan fajin is regarded as a paranormal ability.

The bold part is false. In my younger days, I had devoted 20yrs to the practice of various forms of all three Chinese Internal Arts. And while I had experience with many teachers from authentic lineages, not one made any claims of paranormal activity. In fact, it was common knowledge that people who made those claims were street hawkers and circus performers, or otherwise unscrupulous.

Sadly, it is these unscrupulous/delusional practitioners that have come to represent these arts in the eyes of outsiders.

On the other hand, there's Chen Xiaowang. His family invented Taijiquan 19 generations ago, and he's considered the Grand Master of the art today. He does not make any paranormal claims. What he does do is teach and demonstrate sound principles of bio-mechanics. His mid-air punches have an audible snap, even when he's wearing nothing but a t-shirt. I once stood about eight feet away from him while he threw a punch during a form performance, and I could feel the floor shake under my feet. It was a bouncy wooden gym floor, but still an impressive display of explosive power.

Or Luo Dexiu, student of the famed Hung Ixiang ( the 'not so little elephant' in Robert Smith's classic Chinese Boxing ). Luo had successfully represented Hung's school in Taiwan's vicious full-contact tournament circuit. I can assure you he never claimed to beat his opponents by shooting Chi out of his palms, or any such nonsense.

To clarify, Taijiquan does not claim fajin is supernatural, only unscrupulous/delusional/ignorant practitioners make that claim.

ETA: I didn't read the whole thread, but I see now that Wudang already brought up the same point.

 

[jimtron]

ETA: Don't make me invoke Bullshido!

I was going to mention that...just in case there's anyone who isn't familiar with Bullshido, it's a great site that points out the ridiculous claims made by some martial arts practitioners.

http://www.bullshido.net/

 

[Ellen Travis]

.....

I know who Peter Ralston is, I know who Mike Sigman is, I know who Tsung Hwa Jou was, Douglas Wile etc.
I know who many people in Taiji are, either in person or by reputation (some good some not so good)... but I still don't know who Michael Phillips is.

Apologies for the derail

I just wondered whether you might know anything about "tai chi master" Jason Chan?

He is appearing in this woofest in December
http://thebigom.org/show-line-up/

His website is here
http://www.lightfoundation.co.uk/

and according to his bio

Jason Chan is a spiritual master and healer whose energy and teachings have transformed and enlightened the lives of hundreds of his close students, as well as touching the lives of thousands more spiritual seekers who have attended his courses, retreats, workshops and demonstrations in the UK, Ireland, Europe, USA and Thailand. He is also the author of The Radiant Warrior (Hay House 2009) and was voted Most Inspirational Individual in 2008 by readers of Kindred Spirit Magazine. Kindred Spirit 21st Anniversary Awards 2008 said: “Jason has quietly, with dignity and integrity, worked tirelessly to help others find inner peace and balance.”

For over 20 years Jason has dedicated his life to passing on the benefits of his “Infinite Arts” including rejuvenation, vitality, natural health, inner strength and spiritual growth.

Jason is a master of martial arts, who received in-depth training in Chinese martial arts, Tai Chi, Chi Kung and sacred Taoist arts as a child and young adult in Hong Kong. He then brought these ancient arts to the West where he developed and perfected them. He is the creator of Infinite Tai Chi™, Infinite Chi Kung™, Infinite Meditation™, Infinite Chi Yoga™ (a fusion of yoga and Chi Kung), and Ling Chi Healing™. An inspiring teacher, Jason now devotes himself to leading spiritual workshops and retreats, Infinite Tai Chi™ and Advanced Infinite Tai Chi teacher training courses, and Ling Chi Healing practitioner’s courses in the UK, Republic of Ireland and abroad.

“Looking at life from the highest possible view, we can see that there is a definite order in all that happens in nature and the Universe. We are part of nature and it follows that we are affected by the same patterns, cycles, flow, change and movement of the natural laws. It is from these ancient sources of wisdom that the “Infinite Arts” have drawn their unique view of life.” – Jason Chan 2000

http://www.lightfoundation.co.uk/about-us/jason-chan/

You can see him on this video at 3.11 minutes in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlaqGvrhGWw

I cannot find any information about his lineage and just wondered if you had heard of him. Thanks

 

[Wudang]

Had a quick look at some videos - at first I thought he was doing a Chee Soo form (not a good sign) but it doesn't show a great understanding of the principles - in the video below he seems to be doing a push with his back leaning back



If you're looking for tai chi in the Manchester area try http://www.wanghaijun.com/

 

[Czarcasm]

His mid-air punches have an audible snap, even when he's wearing nothing but a t-shirt. I once stood about eight feet away from him while he threw a punch during a form performance, and I could feel the floor shake under my feet. It was a bouncy wooden gym floor, but still an impressive display of explosive power.

1. What is his hand hitting that causes the concussive noise to be made?
2. Why in the world would the floor shake when he swings his arms(no matter how fast he does it)...unless his body is also jumping at the same time?

 

[Wudang]

1. What is his hand hitting that causes the concussive noise to be made?
2. Why in the world would the floor shake when he swings his arms(no matter how fast he does it)...unless his body is also jumping at the same time?

For 2 - it's a feature of internal MA most obvious in Chen taichi especially "hidden hand punch". Best video I could find below. Can you see how his weight moves and force goes into the floor as he punches?

 

[Czarcasm]

I head the rustle of his loose sleeve and heard him exhale loudly, and while he might of pushed down with his leg when he threw his arm, I didn't see any "force go into the floor"...and neither did you.

edited to add: If "force" actually was directed towards the floor, it seems to me to be a waste of energy that should have been directed towards the punch, instead.

 

[Wudang]

he might of (sic) pushed down with his leg when he threw his arm, I didn't see any "force go into the floor"

Would you like to clarify what you mean because I can't see any way of pushing down with his leg without directing force into the floor? It's how every martial art punches more or less. Push the floor and and since it doesn't move Newton's 3rd comes into effect.

eta: in most tai chi styles, one trick is "bounce jing" where basically they lift the back heel a little then slam it down as part of the punch.