• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Spanking children doesn't work.

Jules Galen said:
That's silly. You don't discipline a child by striking them - and that's not what "Spanking" is all about. And, "Spanking" is not about "Punishment", either....unless you are some kind of pervert.

Anyways...Spanking works very well although there is no magical formula as to how much to apply (and people seem to love those "Magical Formulas" - so easy). What spanking does it's immediatly gets a child's attention so that they stop doing something that is utterly destructive or dangerous - and can then be disciplined. In that way, spanking is like spraying a fire to get it under control. Unfortunately, a lot of people confuse spanking with discipline...and they wonder why they can't even house-train a dog, much less discipline a child.
Click to expand...

So you're not physically striking a minor to punish or discipline them, you're physically striking a minor in order to get their attention.

Okay. Is there no other way to get a child's attention? So how we manage to get the attention of other adults and even pets without physically striking them.

This is really what gets me. You can't strike a pet. You can't strike a spouse. But somehow with children there's just no way around striking them in some cases.

And let's also be fair. This has nothing to do with adult:child interactions. It's parent:child interactions. No one here would be comfortable with another adult putting hands on your child.
 
Craig4 said:
I only read the abstract. Does anyone one know if the study looks at the amount/severity of spanking and the age when spanking stopped? The abstract sort eludes to it when it mentions that spanking and physical abuse effects didn't differ. I just wonder if there were differences related to how severe spankings were or how frequently given.
Click to expand...

Not sure.

AdamSK linked to another study that tried to break the spanking down to threes different categories. Conditional, Customary and "severe or predominant". It found that Conditional was better than some other non-spanking strategies, but not all.

My takeaway is that I would rather us another non-panking strategy than spanking, so long as any other strategy is comparable or better than spanking.
 
Jules Galen said:
That's silly. You don't discipline a child by striking them - and that's not what "Spanking" is all about. And, "Spanking" is not about "Punishment", either....unless you are some kind of pervert.

Anyways...Spanking works very well although there is no magical formula as to how much to apply (and people seem to love those "Magical Formulas" - so easy).
Click to expand...

If it really works so well why doesn't that effect show up well in studies? Are people just not doing it right?

What spanking does it's immediatly gets a child's attention so that they stop doing something that is utterly destructive or dangerous - and can then be disciplined. In that way, spanking is like spraying a fire to get it under control. Unfortunately, a lot of people confuse spanking with discipline...and they wonder why they can't even house-train a dog, much less discipline a child.
Click to expand...

For what you are describing I would think a quick spritz of water to the face would work better. I used that with a puppy once and it worked quite well.
 
Argumemnon said:
I really think that this point needs to be acknowledged by someone here: when you compare children who are never physically punished with those who are punished twice a week, yeah, you might see a problem with the latter group. My issue is that the second group is such an extreme that we can't really draw conclusions about physical punishment in general unless we test more moderate methods.
Click to expand...

AdamSK did post a study that tried to break it down better.
 
Whenever I talk to parents about this, I always tell them, "I can control your kid plus 30 others for over 7 hours a day without hitting them. You don't need to spank".
 
Argumemnon said:
What if it's demonstratably more effective in moderation, for instance?
Click to expand...

Then that should be easy to study and such studies should show that. But the only study presented so far said that is was better than some non-spanking strategy but not all. To me that means it is not demonstrably more effective. It is comparable at best and we should focus more energy on teaching those more effective strategies and less energy on trying to find the fine line where spanking may just work best.

That's like trying to find the best dosage or uranium to treat a disease that is comparably treatable by several other medicines that are almost never toxic.
 
Fudbucker said:
Whenever I talk to parents about this, I always tell them, "I can control your kid plus 30 others for over 7 hours a day without hitting them. You don't need to spank".
Click to expand...

Yeah, but you've got "teacher voice" - that's like magic.
 
Argumemnon said:
Me, 30 years ago.

If you're asking me for more than anecdotes, you know as well as I do that studies on this don't exist; in fact that's the very thing I'm asking for. Otherwise I'm left to speculate, because the studies I've seen so far don't support the conclusion that spanking doesn't work full stop.
Click to expand...

Okay, I'll grant that studies on every permutation of spanking have not been conducted and in truth it is always impossible to rule out every confounding factor. But in your specific case how was spanking effective?
 
50 years after my last (disciplinary) spanking, and my butt still tingles when I think about doing something wrong. :twitch:
 
Unfortunately science and facts won't convince the people who go with their "common sense". It's the reason for why many people think that punishing someone severely for something is somehow inherently more effective and worthwhile than punishing someone leniently.

Death penalty advocates and the "tough-on-crime" retards are a great example of the same phenomenon. Despite ample proof that they are wrong they often refuse to budge.
 
Arcade22 said:
Unfortunately science and facts won't convince the people who go with their "common sense". It's the reason for why many people think that punishing someone severely for something is somehow inherently more effective and worthwhile than punishing someone leniently.

Death penalty advocates and the "tough-on-crime" retards are a great example of the same phenomenon. Despite ample proof that they are wrong they often refuse to budge.
Click to expand...

To be fair, they do budge when it is a friend of theirs. See Dennis Hastert.
 
Yes, spanking children doesn't work and is wrong. I would also like to add spanking (or hitting) pets is wrong as well. I've been hit and it was wrong.

However, consensual spankings of adult women needs further exploration. My Private Messages thingy works
 
I remember when my father last spanked a child - it was hilarious. My Father - quite an old guy by this time - was driving his great grandsons back (about 9 and 11 years old) from the beach and, as usual, the two were bickering and on the edge of fighting.

And...then it happened - on the interstate and at 70 MPH the two boys went to war in the back seat. Without saying a word or even showing consternation in his face, dad hammered the breaks and jumped out and opened the back door and silently and surgically beat the miscreants with a rolled up news paper as they scrambled and tried to open rear doors that for some reason....just wouldn't unlock! I LMAO!

Later, over dinner, Dad told the boys exactly why they had been beaten and why it had been such a rare thing - before then, it just hadn't occurred to them that "Great Grandpa" would beat their arses. In return, the boys learned to respect the old man a bit more - and they never misbehaved in the car again in front of my dad. or any other Parent or Grandparent. The boys got the message.
 
Does anyone remember the thread on scientific studies and how a huge percentage were non-reproducible, especially social psychology? I find it convenient the researchers here managed to find so many studies for their meta-analysis that were so thoroughly vetted. I would venture a vast majority of psychologist already believe spanking is wrong and their studies just so happen to agree with the results.
https://www.theguardian.com/science...-on-validity-of-psychology-experiment-results
 
Arcade22 said:
Unfortunately science and facts won't convince the people who go with their "common sense". It's the reason for why many people think that punishing someone severely for something is somehow inherently more effective and worthwhile than punishing someone leniently.
Death penalty advocates and the "tough-on-crime" retards are a great example of the same phenomenon. Despite ample proof that they are wrong they often refuse to budge.
Click to expand...

You see, I believe that "Spanking" works, but I do not believe in "Punishment": I believe in discipline. So, what I am trying to do is change a behavior - usually by modelling a good behavior, not administer pain in hopes that it will teach anything.
 
So giving a kid quick sharp slap to the bum is worse than mentally and emotionally abusing them by shunning?
 
Jules Galen said:
I remember when my father last spanked a child - it was hilarious. My Father - quite an old guy by this time - was driving his great grandsons back (about 9 and 11 years old) from the beach and, as usual, the two were bickering and on the edge of fighting.

And...then it happened - on the interstate and at 70 MPH the two boys went to war in the back seat. Without saying a word or even showing consternation in his face, dad hammered the breaks and jumped out and opened the back door and silently and surgically beat the miscreants with a rolled up news paper as they scrambled and tried to open rear doors that for some reason....just wouldn't unlock! I LMAO!

Later, over dinner, Dad told the boys exactly why they had been beaten and why it had been such a rare thing - before then, it just hadn't occurred to them that "Great Grandpa" would beat their arses. In return, the boys learned to respect the old man a bit more - and they never misbehaved in the car again in front of my dad. or any other Parent or Grandparent. The boys got the message.
Click to expand...

I love a good "just-so" story. I heard that their cousins, who were not spanked, went on to be drug dealers and communists.
 
Jules Galen said:
You see, I believe that "Spanking" works, but I do not believe in "Punishment": I believe in discipline. So, what I am trying to do is change a behavior - usually by modelling a good behavior, not administer pain in hopes that it will teach anything.
Click to expand...
How does spanking model good behavior? In the best case it hopes to encourage good behavior, but it models aggression, as far as I can tell.

The distinction between 'discipline' and 'punishment' strikes me as unsustainable, since discipline (in this sense) entails punishment. Hell, 'disciplinary action' is a euphemism for punishment. Then again, euphemism might be the goal here.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom