Merged rlopez2's thread to discuss recent history

[Foster Zygote]

Why are you so desperate to besmirch the psychiatric medical profession?

ETA: Are you a Scientologist?

I get the impression that at least one psychologist has attempted to help him in the past. Judging from the level of vitriol, it may have been involuntary.

 

[turingtest]

That kind of read like the ultimate inside joke- one that only the person making it will ever get or think is funny.

Seriously, from having read most of this thread, it seems that folks are trying to have a conversation with someone who just isn't familiar enough with the concept to meaningfully reciprocate.

another mind reader?

Well, I did specifically say "from having read most of this thread," so...no. That was a pretty good example from you of just what I meant, though, in that the concept of "conversation" assumes that the people having one will respond to what is actually said, not only to what they wish had been.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

It is definitely not the same to say that 507,000 to 807,000 Greeks died than 450,900 British people or 419,400 gringos, because the UK's pre war population was more than 6 times and the U.S. more than 14 times greater than Griechenland.

No, it's not the same. Especially since neither the UK nor the USA were invaded and occupied by an enemy army (if you overlook the small Channel Islands and Aleutians).

So what's your point?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

... right after the war's end its freedom loving members got all "strategic" and "brave" and started to drop so many candies on defenseless civilians (as Nazis themselves had never done!) that they, just to cite a small city, Pforzheim, indiscriminately "freedom loved" 21,600 people in 12 minutes.

Wikipedia says 17,000 people died in the bombing of Pforzheim in February of 1945. Although that's a terrible thing it's not 21,000 killed after the war's end, so if you wouldn't mind explaining, what are you talking about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pforzheim#World_War_II

 

[Andy_Ross]

Pforzheim was a centre of the clock and watchmaking industry. In the war the factories were transformed in to major producers of precision instruments, fuses for artillery shells and bombs, and produced precision parts for V1 and V2 rockets.

It was also an important road and rail junction.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Y'know, I'm no longer thinking our "Lopez" friend is Spanish at all. He lies comprehensively about his own background, education and profession. He uses terms that are far more appropriate for an American resident than a Spaniard. I get the impression he posts more on a US than European clock. And there is that distinct Scientology vibe happening throughout - specific, lunatic, nasty prejudices combined with extreme ignorance and hate - that come only from involvement in cult centres. I'm getting a more definite lean towards...Scientology headquarters in California...

But surely someone who slips into calling Greece "Griechenland" must be a native Spaniard. Oh. Hang on a minute...

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Pforzheim was a centre of the clock and watchmaking industry. In the war the factories were transformed in to major producers of precision instruments, fuses for artillery shells and bombs, and produced precision parts for V1 and V2 rockets.

It was also an important road and rail junction.

...And was devastated by a bombing raid which, somewhat to the point, did not happen after the end of the war as our friend falsely claimed.

 

[Norman Alexander]

...And was devastated by a bombing raid which, somewhat to the point, did not happen after the end of the war as our friend falsely claimed.

Given our friend's very sketchy knowledge of WW2 dates even in general, this is hardly surprising.

 

[Hans]

Could be. I'm thinking someone from Los Angeles, but much the same lacklustre sort of person. Maybe not exactly living in Sea Org, but the sort of schizo personality that is attracted to it.

I was being sarcastic but yours is very probable probably a US citizen who hates being one.

Hey what-ever-your-name-is: here is your solution-

https://travel.state.gov/content/tr...nship/Renunciation-US-Nationality-Abroad.html

Leave the US and renounce your citizenship. Of course you'd either have to become stateless (not recommended) or become a citizen of elsewhere - what appeals? Pakistan? Turkmensitan, Bolivia, Kiribati?

List of country's where you can become a citizen easily (relatively).

https://wherecani.live/blog/view/where-is-the-easiest-country-to-get-citizenship/

Spain – easiest for those from Latin America, Phillippines or USA

Spain has a long naturalization period of ten years. But, the government reduces the wait to just two years for citizens of former colonies. So, for citizens of those countries, you can get citizenship after only two years of legal residence.

This pathway is also open to USA citizens. But there is an extra step. Move to Puerto Rico for 12-months before moving to Spain, and you will qualify for this reduction in naturalization time as well. You need to apply for a “Certificate of Puerto Rican Citizenship” as a USA citizen who has lived on the island for 12-months.

 

[rlopez2]

The other allied powers were not responsible for the wasteful tactics employed by the USSR.

wasteful tactics? I keep telling you freedom lovers are so smart! They are so smart that they brag about being "'the' 'brave'", but when their silly bravado is put to the test, they, somewhat magically, become "responsible".
~

... right after the war's end its freedom loving members got all "strategic" and "brave" and started to drop so many candies on defenseless civilians (as Nazis themselves had never done!) that they, just to cite a small city, Pforzheim, indiscriminately "freedom loved" 21,600 people in 12 minutes.

Wikipedia says 17,000 people died in the bombing of Pforzheim in February of 1945. Although that's a terrible thing it's not 21,000 killed after the war's end, so if you wouldn't mind explaining, what are you talking about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pforzheim#World_War_II

~
Oh, great Lord! Let me see, I was 21.29% wrong about the degree of terribility! ((216-170)/216). I am lying my head off! Or wait, am I?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Pforzheim_in_World_War_II

During the latter stages of World War II, Pforzheim, a town in southwestern Germany, was bombed several times. The largest raid, one of the most devastating area bombardments of the war, was carried out by the Royal Air Force (RAF) on the evening of February 23, 1945. Some 17,600 people, or 31.4% of the town's population, were killed. About 83% of the town's buildings were destroyed, two-thirds of the complete area of Pforzheim and between 80% and 100% of the inner city.
~
The largest raid, one of the most devastating ...

But the most important point is that Nazis themselves never got anywhere near that! Of course, that is "different" as gringos say when confronted with such "alternate facts". They don’t invade countries and kill people, they freedomlovingly "liberate" and "greater good" them.

I remember once during those typically gringo incidents. Someone took machine guns and started to shoot at people attending a concert. The media reports were telling about peoples emotional reactions as they were shot at by that crazy nut. The graphically emotional descriptions of the report were like: a mother trying to run away thinking to herself "my dear God, kill me but not my baby"... Nowhere in that report is a hint from the journo that this is how they feel and what those unAmerikan people in the "regions" of the world think when USG bombs or drones them. Why? "Because" "this is 'different'".
~

so if you wouldn't mind explaining, what are you talking about?

I am talking about the freedom loving act of dropping so many candies on defenseless civilian people and not during the war against Nazi troops. Given the options, I think that was much, much more humane and loving!
~

Pforzheim was a centre of the clock and watchmaking industry. In the war the factories were transformed in to major producers of precision instruments, fuses for artillery shells and bombs, and produced precision parts for V1 and V2 rockets.
It was also an important road and rail junction.

...And was devastated by a bombing raid which, somewhat to the point, did not happen after the end of the war as our friend falsely claimed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_World_War_II

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_operations_of_the_Red_Army_in_World_War_II

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad (23 August 1942 – 2 February 1943)
that was the inflection point of the war

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_World_War_II_(1945–1991)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_II)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bagration

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Prussian_offensive

and this map shows to you the dates on which the different battalions of the Red army reached the German Eastern border.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Prussian_offensive#/media/File:Easterneurope10.jpg
~
The dates range from 12th of January to the 30th of March so you are right and "I am wrong" February of 1945 was not exactly after the capitulation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II
A special British Joint Intelligence Subcommittee report, German Strategy and Capacity to Resist, prepared for Winston Churchill's eyes only, predicted that Germany might collapse as early as mid-April if the Soviets overran its eastern defences.
~
and the Soviets overran Nazis eastern defenses squashing them flat even though Nazis gave them a fierce fight (which most strategists, historians now see as "senseless"), so the British High command themselves knew the war was over and that the Russian red army had won it for them/"that alliance". This is what I meant. Those air raids happened at that point in time during the war, like the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in which those were senseless acts of genocide just satisfying their freedom loving ego. Specially, since freedom lovers had had plenty of chances to actually bomb Nazi troops and let me repeat that, as any one reading these back and forths can notice, I was only talking about one city.
~
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II
Bombing of Dresden in World War II
The bombing of Dresden was a British-American aerial bombing attack on the city of Dresden, the capital of the German state of Saxony, during World War II. In four raids between 13 and 15 February 1945, 722 heavy bombers of the British Royal Air Force (RAF) and 527 of the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) dropped more than 3,900 tons of high-explosive bombs and incendiary devices on the city.[1] The bombing and the resulting firestorm destroyed more than 1,600 acres (6.5 km2) of the city centre.[2] An estimated 22,700[3] to 25,000[4] people were killed.[a] Three more USAAF air raids followed, two occurring on 2 March aimed at the city's railway marshalling yard and one smaller raid on 17 April aimed at industrial areas.
Immediate German propaganda claims following the attacks and postwar discussions[5] of whether the attacks were justified have led to the bombing becoming one of the moral causes célèbres of the war.[6] A 1953 United States Air Force report defended the operation as the justified bombing of a strategic target, which they noted was a major rail transport and communication centre, housing 110 factories and 50,000 workers in support of the German war effort.[7] Several researchers claim that not all of the communications infrastructure, such as the bridges, were targeted, nor were the extensive industrial areas outside the city centre.[8] Critics of the bombing have asserted that Dresden was a cultural landmark while downplaying its strategic significance, and claim that the attacks were indiscriminate area bombing and not proportionate to the military gains.[9][10][11] Some have claimed that the raid constituted a war crime.[12] Some, mostly in the German far-right, refer to the bombing as a mass murder, calling it "Dresden's Holocaust of bombs".[13][14]
~
Even Churchill tried to disengage himself (and I don’t think he liked anything German a bit) from such "acts of terror" (as he himself described them) and some other commanders of the British military "responsibly" criticized him, but, again, here is the thing, again, why didn't the British and gringo high command disagreeing with Churchill decide to actually bomb the Nazi troops when they had the chance to do so?
~

Britain was not occupied so civilian deaths were only due to air raids. US was not even bombed so civilian casualties can't be compared.
As for military casualties. How can the wasteful tactics of one country be blamed on another?

since neither the UK nor the USA were invaded and occupied by an enemy army

Gringos don't stop amazing me! Britain knew well, that they hadn't been occupied, yet! They knew well Nazis were not bored enough in their minds to go to the other side of the globe to mess with "negritos". Which is what bewildered them. "Great Lord! Look at how crazy those Germans are! With so many 'negritos' around the world to mess with and they mess with us!" Britain was living already in fear of the next air raid. Compare the air incursions of Britain against Nazi Germany to the ones of Nazi Germany against Britain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blitz
~

Why do you not include the war against Japan? It is called a World War for a reason.

I think that is one of the lexical obfuscations you notice in history and in wikipedia. Yes, the war in Europe and in Japan happened chronologically at the same time. But the development and "reasons" and "causes" behind them are very different for the most part. The only common denominator is the colonial mindset that makes a people think that their **** smells better than someone else’s, "because" they have guns and canons to explain themselves in case of doubts. But there are telling differences in how that mindset is consciously put to practice by a people. Again, when Nazis were doing their freedom loving they went head on against people who could and did defend themselves on an equal basis.

The main question I have been asking here and all of you find "ridiculous", "irresponsible", you say you do not "understand", ... is: Why does the worldsonlysuperpower have such a hard time finding China and/or Russia on a map? Why is it they are so careful and abusively selective when they need to put to the test their delusions of greatness, bravery and all of that?

 

[Norman Alexander]

He is talking about the Berlin Airlift, where American pilots had the habit of dropping candy from their planes for the children on the approaches to Berlin's airfields. Comparing that to wartime bombing missions.

Then he is completely downplaying the Pacific theatre of WW2. It's not Germany, so it's not important, despite the ferocity and the carnage. Can we all say "latent racism" together?

 

[Pixel42]

The main question I have been asking here and all of you find "ridiculous", "irresponsible", you say you do not "understand", ... is: Why does the worldsonlysuperpower have such a hard time finding China and/or Russia on a map? Why is it they are so careful and abusively selective when they need to put to the test their delusions of greatness, bravery and all of that?

It's an interesting question. To answer it, it might be worth asking whether it differs from previous superpowers in that respect. Could the average citizen of Rome, Britain, China, Spain etc have found distant countries on a map when their country was taking its turn at being top dog? Were their citizens equally selective when justifying their high opinion of themselves? Maybe it's just a natural consequence of being born in the country which currently has the most power in the world.

 

[Hans]

Actually a part of Britain was occupied: The Channel Islands

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_occupation_of_the_Channel_Islands

Our friend has a week old bologna sandwich knowledge of history - limited, tasteless and low on value, and it smell odd

 

[catsmate]

Spain made huge profits from it's colonies in the sixteenth century, but threw it down the tube in an endless series of wars in Europe, A lot of the gold they got from Mexico and Peru went down with the Spanish Armada.

The influx of gold and silver destroyed their economy.

 

[Wudang]

The influx of gold and silver destroyed their economy.

I believe it’s sometimes used to illustrate the folly of treating wealth as a zero sum game. Broad brush but the Spanish treated the New world as a wealth resource rather than a wealth generator.

 

[catsmate]

I believe it’s sometimes used to illustrate the folly of treating wealth as a zero sum game. Broad brush but the Spanish treated the New world as a wealth resource rather than a wealth generator.

And to debunk the fantasies of the goldbugs that gold is the only true wealth.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

But the most important point is that Nazis themselves never got anywhere near that!

The Nazis were never capable of killing 17,000 people in a single bombing raid because Germany chose only to develop medium bombers. They killed about 40,000 British people in total during the Blitz.

But they found much more efficient and deliberately targeted ways to kill civilians. For example the SS Einsatzgruppen managed to kill around 65,000 civilians in Poland in just four months of 1939, and they were only just getting started. The really vast industrial scale murdering took longer to perfect.

Perhaps you could remind us how many civilians the Nazis deliberately killed in total?

 

[Dave Rogers]

Perhaps you could remind us how many civilians the Nazis deliberately killed in total?

According to his metric, though, that counts as genocide by the Allies.

Dave

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Gringos don't stop amazing me! Britain knew well, that they hadn't been occupied, yet! They knew well Nazis were not bored enough in their minds to go to the other side of the globe to mess with "negritos". Which is what bewildered them. "Great Lord! Look at how crazy those Germans are! With so many 'negritos' around the world to mess with and they mess with us!"

Germany did of course "get bored enough" to have a colonial empire, which it then lost in the first world war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_colonial_empire

Hitler wanted Germany to have a new Empire, in some places modelled on the British Empire but in others more of a greatly expanded Germany, and decided it was going to be everything West of the Urals. This would require the extermination of some inconvenient populations.

So do remind us again - how many civilians did the Nazis kill?

 

[Foster Zygote]

I am talking about the freedom loving act of dropping so many candies on defenseless civilian people and not during the war against Nazi troops. Given the options, I think that was much, much more humane and loving!

Well, actual Nazi troops would be the Waffen SS. If only the Allies had dropped chocolate bars on them while they were sweeping through conquered lands and carrying out mass executions of men, women and children whom they identified as ethnically inferior. That would have shown the world who was nicer. (By the way, don't bother with stating a gaslighting, deliberately misinterpreted inference that the above is a declaration of universal innocence regarding the U.S. You're the only one playing the good vs. evil game. No one else participating in this thread is that simple minded.)

You need to stop addressing everyone as though they all think that the U.S. has never done anything wrong - as though they refuse to see the genocides of westward expansion; the injustices of slavery and systemic racism; the exploitation of weaker countries with desirable resources etcetera.

When you pretend that everyone you address is arguing that the U.S. did nothing wrong, ever, you make yourself look like a simpleton who can't deal with the complexities of reality. And when you insist on using "gringo" as an epithet, you only reveal your narrow minded bigotry, like someone who feigns intellectual and moral superiority, but can't bring himself to use words like "African", "Sudanese" or even "black", but insists on saying "******", you reveal that you are simply a racist whose base motivation is nothing more sophisticated than the infantile thrill of calling people" gringos".