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Cont: Musk, SpaceX and future of Tesla II

arthwollipot said:
Anyone who still believes that Elon Musk still has any grasp on reality should listen to at least the first 20min of this episode of the Know Rogan Experience, in which Marsh and Cecil break down Joe Rogan's recent interview with him.
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I'm finally getting around to listening to part 2 of this interview.

www.knowrogan.com

#0045 - Elon Musk, Pt. 2

#0045 - Elon Musk, Pt. 2 page for The Know Rogan Experience
www.knowrogan.com www.knowrogan.com

It astonishes me how Musk is able to get away with telling the most outrageous and disgusting racist lies on the biggest podcast platform in the world. And Joe doesn't just let him do it, Joe agrees with the lies. It's gross. At least March and Cecil have their heads screwed on right and can set the record straight. For all the good it'll do.
 
Elon Musk
@elonmusk
Am changing the Tesla mission wording from:

Sustainable Abundance

To

Amazing Abundance
 
electrek.co

Tesla’s 4680 battery supply chain collapses as partner writes down deal by 99%

A major link in Tesla’s 4680 battery supply chain has just snapped. South Korean battery material supplier L&F Co. announced...
electrek.co electrek.co

South Korean battery material supplier L&F Co. announced today that the value of its massive supply deal with Tesla has been slashed by over 99%, signaling a catastrophic drop in demand for the automaker’s in-house battery cells.

This is arguably the strongest evidence yet that Tesla’s 4680 program, and the vehicle that relies on it, the Cybertruck, is in serious trouble.
Click to expand...
 
Puppycow said:
Elon says:
"Optimus will eliminate poverty and provide universal high income for all"

Yeah, and could I interest you in some magic beans? Limited supplies. Order now before they're all gone!!
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I'm struggling to understand where all this high income will come from. If a business owner replaces paid labor with robots, what happens to all the laborers? I can see how the business owner's station improves, because he now has lower labor costs. But one person's labor "cost" is another person's entire livelihood.
 
Puppycow said:
Elon says:
"Optimus will eliminate poverty and provide universal high income for all"

Yeah, and could I interest you in some magic beans? Limited supplies. Order now before they're all gone!!
Click to expand...
Optimus will supply magic land to grow crops on and mines for minerals where there is more enough to supply a whole world of the new high income elites.
 
Elon Musk
@elonmusk

Correct.

My Tesla and SpaceX shares, which are almost all my “wealth”, only go up in value as a function of how much useful product those companies produce and service.

This means my “wealth” can only increase due to producing more products and services for the public. Moreover, anyone else who is a shareholder in Tesla and SpaceX, which incudes employees, participates in the upside of stock appreciation.

That is because I am a maker, not a taker like the Bernie Sanders type politicians of the world. They take and they’re on the take, because they cannot or will not make.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2006014310607167607
 
Wudang said:
It's rather worrying how little he understands how company shares are valued. Amongst many other things.
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Oh, he understands it quite well. He knows very well his perceived wealth is based entirely on how much he can hype and overvalue the companies he holds and convince people to sustain such unsupportable share prices for them. He just hopes you don't understand that.
 
Comment unsder that report, does anyone know if it is accurate?

....snip....
From Battery Day we were supposed to have:
  • A standardized 4680 cell format for Tesla vehicles produced not just by Tesla but by all of their other battery suppliers (LG, Panasonic, CATL, etc.)
  • Cars with 54% more range
  • 56% reduction in $/kWh at the vehicle level
  • A Model S Plaid Plus with over 520 miles of range
  • A $25k passenger car
None of those have happened. As far as I know none of Tesla's cars except the Cybertruck are even using the structural battery pack design or 4680 form-factor cells. And that vehicle falls far short of the originally marketed 500 miles of range.

In fact their competitors are beating them to it. BMW and Rivian are both using 46XX format cells for their mass market vehicles from Samsung, LG, and others with cell-to-pack and structural battery pack designs.
Click to expand...
 
JayUtah said:
I'm struggling to understand where all this high income will come from. If a business owner replaces paid labor with robots, what happens to all the laborers? I can see how the business owner's station improves, because he now has lower labor costs. But one person's labor "cost" is another person's entire livelihood.
Click to expand...
Elon doesn't think that somebody's who's not already really rich is a person.

Therefore anything that funnels money from us poor peons to the Galaxy Nazi and his ilk increases prosperity in his eyes.
 
JayUtah said:
I'm struggling to understand where all this high income will come from. If a business owner replaces paid labor with robots, what happens to all the laborers? I can see how the business owner's station improves, because he now has lower labor costs. But one person's labor "cost" is another person's entire livelihood.
Click to expand...
If you wave a magic wand and replace all the human workers with robots that cost the owners nothing, the profits will sky rocket. The universal income will be paid for out of those extra profits.

There are several major flaws in this idea , the first of which is that government intervention (taxes) will be required to force the owners to distribute the profits to the ex workers. If this happened at Tesla, does anybody think Musk will be distributing universal incomes to all his ex workers? No. He’ll be bribing lobbying politicians to let him keep all the money.

The second flaw is that the robots will not be free. There will be an up front cost and then maintenance costs. My bet is that Tesla will structure the costs on a subscription based model and the robots will be a little bit cheaper - but not much - than the equivalent human labour, at least at first. Once the customer is fully dependent on robots, the price will go up.

The third flaw is that robots are already here. The car industry has been using them for decades, they just don’t look like humans, and they never will. A robot that spends all day welding cars together doesn’t need to be bipedal. In fact that is a disadvantage for any job that needs precision.

This is just Musk hyping his company’s stock because, if it goes down too far, his debts will start getting called in.
 
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jeremyp said:
If you wave a magic wand and replace all the human workers with robots that cost the owners nothing, the profits will sky rocket. The universal income will be paid for out of those extra profits.

There are several major flaws in this idea , the first of which is that
Click to expand...
Without workers, there aren't wages. Without wages, there aren't buyers. Without buyers, there aren't profits. Without profits, the universal income cannot be paid.
 
It MIGHT work if there is one country with only robot workers and the rest with waged humans...

Until the unwaged revolt.
 
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jeremyp said:
There are several major flaws in this idea , the first of which is that government intervention (taxes) will be required to force the owners to distribute the profits to the ex workers. If this happened at Tesla, does anybody think Musk will be distributing universal incomes to all his ex workers? No. He’ll be bribing lobbying politicians to let him keep all the money.
Click to expand...
Right—it's just Trickle Down, only with a token liberal character in the cast. The billionaires aren't lining up now to pay for the entitlement programs that already exist. There's no reason to suppose their attitudes will change. UBI simply recasts former Makers as Takers, and we all know where the billionaires stand on that particular moral distinction. In fact, Elon Musk is in the vanguard of the fight against organized labor. Even if you're literally a Maker right now, Musk doesn't believe you deserve to negotiate for a comfortable life. I don't think robots are going to fix that.

jeremyp said:
The second flaw is that the robots will not be free. There will be an up front cost and then maintenance costs.
Click to expand...
Easy, just have more robots to maintain the robots. It's robots all the way down.

jeremyp said:
The third flaw is that robots are already here. The car industry has been using them for decades, they just don’t look like humans, and they never will. A robot that spends all day welding cars together doesn’t need to be bipedal. In fact that is a disadvantage for any job that needs precision.
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I agree. My manufacturing is done by a group of very highly skilled, highly trained, and handsomely paid employees. I use robots, but only for tasks that require more precision than a human can manage without considerable fatigue. None of my robots are anthropomorphic. And my human workers—who are anthropomorphic—require special tools and accommodations for that.

jeremyp said:
This is just Musk hyping his company’s stock because, if it goes down too far, his debts will start getting called in.
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It really does seem to upend the billionaires' notion of Makers versus Takers.

theprestige said:
Without workers, there aren't wages. Without wages, there aren't buyers. Without buyers, there aren't profits. Without profits, the universal income cannot be paid.
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Ostensibly a living UBI would supplant wages and create a class of buyers. But even so, today's billionaires haven't worked out that even the worst of the Takers enliven the economy by allowing more people to participate in it. Billionaires didn't accidentally or incidentally make a billion dollars. It happened because they really do just want to keep acquiring that much more wealth and power than their fellows. It becomes an end unto itself and ultimately convinces them they are inherently morally entitled to that station. Therefore I don't trust any billionaire's plan that involves relinquishing the advantages of billionaireship, or which suddenly and altruistically proposes to recognize inherent worth among the unwashed masses.
 
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