Split Thread Musk, SpaceX and future of Tesla

[8enotto]

Jay Leno has a cyber truck and featured it on his YouTube show. He had the designer present.

The awkward design is because it hard to put complex forms in stainless steel plate. It's bullet proof because the ss body panels accidentally were for the materials.
It's mildly suited for off road use short of rock crawling type trails. Conveniently passed over was costs, range, ease of repair in the boondocks and cargo capacity.
It might as well be a two seater Rolls Royce for every not Jay Leno. You'll never have one.
It really can't do anything a Rivian truck can do off road. nd you can fix your Rivian in a get home patch job.
Plus we know how much weight it carries.

Tesla conveniently forgot to mention the semi can't manage full size loads common today on US highways thus limiting its appeal to fleet buyers. Mild omissions that don't sway much in the boardroom meetings but are critical where the rubber and raod meet.

Musk can do all the slick PR but he can't make it useful or affordable to enough consumers.
They need to start there not new ******* cupholders.

 

[tyr_13]

No, I don't. But according to the designer of the Cybertruck, Franz von Holzhausen, it has a 'fording' mode that applies positive air pressure to the (sealed) battery to prevent water getting into it, and could operate as a boat 'with extra flotation'. That's the guy who designed it saying that, not Musk. I suspect that most of what Musk says about the Cybertruck is just repeating what the design team tells him - and why not? They are the ones who should know.

Edited by sarge: 

removed off-topic content

Why not? Because it's transparently wrong in ways that they both have to be aware of.

 

[a_unique_person]

Musk has done more for the planet than any other human in history.

 

[angrysoba]

Musk has done more for the planet than any other human in history.

I would say that someone like Fritz Haber has a greater claim to that. But, as with Musk, there is a downside. A monkey's paw, if you will... a Genie's wish (I think the two italicized items are slightly different but can't remember how, right now)... a this-is-why-we-can't-have-good-things...

I mean, his technology helped to feed billions of people and without it, there could have been the predicted Malthusian crisis (that was still being predicted, and probably still is predicted by Paul Erlich).

Of course, thanks to Haber, we instead get to complain about all the rampant obesity afflicting not only the developed world, but also much of the developing world too.

But that's not all, remember that Haber was much involved in the development of chemical weapons, and his process also allowed for the making of larger and more numerous bombs.

So I guess with one hand, scientific groundbreakers giveth and with the other they taketh away.

With Musk, his foibles are relatively small potatoes. I think he's done some idiotic things, and yet I also think that Tesla and SpaceX remain Good Things. It's probably too soon to say put him as Best Human in History as we will need to see how Tesla and SpaceX play out. Pretty sure Twitter is going in the dustbin with the hyperloop, the Solar City and his attempted comedy career, but then again, if you don't try you don't succeed.

 

[theprestige]

The problem with Musk and Twitter is that he can't do the same for TikTok, Instagram, and OnlyFans.

 

[a_unique_person]

I would say that someone like Fritz Haber has a greater claim to that. But, as with Musk, there is a downside. A monkey's paw, if you will... a Genie's wish (I think the two italicized items are slightly different but can't remember how, right now)... a this-is-why-we-can't-have-good-things...



I mean, his technology helped to feed billions of people and without it, there could have been the predicted Malthusian crisis (that was still being predicted, and probably still is predicted by Paul Erlich).



Of course, thanks to Haber, we instead get to complain about all the rampant obesity afflicting not only the developed world, but also much of the developing world too.



But that's not all, remember that Haber was much involved in the development of chemical weapons, and his process also allowed for the making of larger and more numerous bombs.



So I guess with one hand, scientific groundbreakers giveth and with the other they taketh away.



With Musk, his foibles are relatively small potatoes. I think he's done some idiotic things, and yet I also think that Tesla and SpaceX remain Good Things. It's probably too soon to say put him as Best Human in History as we will need to see how Tesla and SpaceX play out. Pretty sure Twitter is going in the dustbin with the hyperloop, the Solar City and his attempted comedy career, but then again, if you don't try you don't succeed.

I was quoting Musk's opinion of himself.

 

[a_unique_person]

Thunderf00t has a possibly unhealthy obsession with Musk and regularly over eggs the cake. His case that Musk has committed fraud is pretty compelling, though. "Musk Time" and repeated claims specifically about the value of his technology and it's capabilities that never happen could be considered fraud. A large part of the value of Tesla must be based on those claims.

 

[tyr_13]

The problem with Musk and Twitter is that he can't do the same for TikTok, Instagram, and OnlyFans.

This is the wrong thread for this, but while I'm aware of some of the fairly widespread problems with the other two (and essentially every form of social media), I'm having trouble figuring out why the last one is on your list. Feel free to answer in the proper thread, if you want. It isn't that important.

 

[tyr_13]

Tesla is being pressured to do the same recall in the US that it did in China by two Senators based on a Reuters' report on the consistent failure of suspension components. They're asking that US regulators open similar investigations as those in Norway are engaging in.

Tesla has been blaming the failures on things like 'prior damage' even on day old cars, but it had to make those repairs on more than 120,000 vehicles in just over a year. It made costumers pay for more than a quarter of those, despite internal documents showing they were aware of the problem. While Tesla drives have the highest accident rate of any brand according to insurance data (and second highest incident rate behind RAM), that doesn't actually explain the extent of the problem. This data is at odds with Tesla's assertion of a very low accident rate, but that's because of the way Tesla is counting 'accidents' counter to insurance industry practice. Tesla's assertion of a very low accident rate is also at odds with it's own assertion that telemetry data shows the breaking linkages and control arms is due to driver caused damage. It cannot be both that their drivers are very safe and also damaging their cars at such an elevated rate compared to other car companies.

 

[theprestige]

Ad hom though it is, I'm gonna provisionally assume that any recall instigated by China must be bollocks.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

While Tesla drives have the highest accident rate of any brand according to insurance data (and second highest incident rate behind RAM)...

This is an analysis of drivers, not vehicles. The nationwide driving 'incident' rates on quote requests to this insurer are:-

1 Ram 32.90
2 Tesla 31.13
3 Subaru 30.09
4 Volkswagen 27.92
5 Mazda 27.74
6 BMW 26.82
7 Lexus 26.73
8 Infiniti 26.72
9 Hyundai 25.47
10 Toyota 25.13

...and the explanation according to LendingTree:-

Rams are known for powerful engines with impressive speed and horsepower... Ram drivers had more speeding incidents per 1,000 drivers (4.42) than all the brands analyzed.

Tesla also produces several vehicles known for their performance. Kelley Blue Book’s 2023 list of the 10 fastest electric cars includes four Teslas.

But less exciting brands like Volkswagen and Toyota are not far behind.

As for the accident rate, again the other brands aren't far behind, despite some having many lower performance models:-

1 Tesla 23.54
2 Ram 22.76
3 Subaru 20.90
4 Mazda 18.55
5 Lexus 18.35
6 Volkswagen 18.17
7 BMW 17.81
8 Toyota 17.18

LendingTree says:-

It’s hard to nail down why certain brands may have higher accident rates than others. However, there are indications that certain types of vehicles attract riskier drivers than others...

Furthermore, the nationwide averages hide big variations between different states.

Brand with highest driving incidents per 1,000 drivers by state:-

California Subaru 57.66
Hawaii Infiniti 52.83
District of Columbia Mazda 52.08
Iowa BMW 46.75
Maine Ram 46.27
Alabama BMW 44.40
Indiana Tesla 43.48
Idaho Volkswagen 38.51
Kentucky Tesla 35.29

If you want relevant data to support your narrative you will need to look elsewhere.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

Thunderf00t has a possibly unhealthy obsession with Musk and regularly over eggs the cake. His case that Musk has committed fraud is pretty compelling, though.

As 'compelling' as his attempt to explain Global Warming using gas torches? I unsubscribed after that one and haven't watched any of his videos since.

 

[theprestige]

The one Tesla driver in Kentucky putting in work.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

Tesla conveniently forgot to mention the semi can't manage full size loads common today on US highways thus limiting its appeal to fleet buyers. Mild omissions that don't sway much in the boardroom meetings but are critical where the rubber and raod meet.

Other manufacturers are producing electric powered trucks with various capabilities that don't improve on diesel trucks too - except in fuel cost, maintenance, and - critically - emissions. They don't suit every use case either, but that's no reason to can them.

The Tesla Semi isn't even for sale to the public yet and its specs will probably change as better batteries become available. Load size is limited by maximum legal weight, not by the ability of the tractor to tow it. Weight also affects range of course, which anyone who understands the subject knows.

Musk can do all the slick PR but he can't make it useful or affordable to enough consumers.
They need to start there not new ******* cupholders.

If that is the case then sales will be abysmal. It wouldn't the first time that a manufacturer produced a product that didn't sell as well as expected. But I'm betting it will be useful and affordable to enough 'consumers' that they will sell all they can make.

Tesla's webpage on the Semi doesn't say anything about cup holders. Strangely however, there appears to be a ready market in cup holder addons for semi trucks. Looks like they are a feature that truckers might want!

 

[tyr_13]

SNIP

If you want relevant data to support your narrative you will need to look elsewhere.

And what narrative would that be?

 

[a_unique_person]

As 'compelling' as his attempt to explain Global Warming using gas torches? I unsubscribed after that one and haven't watched any of his videos since.

He had his flights of fantasy and he stretches the truth about Elon sometimes.

What is factual is that Musk has made a lot of promises about the future capabilities of Teslas products. Thunderf00t has video of those promises, he's not making them up.

Specifically Fully Autonomous self driving should be here now. People should have bought Tesla cars because software upgrades would give them that capability. That is Elizabeth Holmes level of fraud.

 

[Dr. Keith]

This is an analysis of drivers, not vehicles. The nationwide driving 'incident' rates on quote requests to this insurer are:-

1 Ram 32.90
2 Tesla 31.13
3 Subaru 30.09
4 Volkswagen 27.92
5 Mazda 27.74
6 BMW 26.82
7 Lexus 26.73
8 Infiniti 26.72
9 Hyundai 25.47
10 Toyota 25.13

...and the explanation according to LendingTree:-


But less exciting brands like Volkswagen and Toyota are not far behind.

As for the accident rate, again the other brands aren't far behind, despite some having many lower performance models:-

1 Tesla 23.54
2 Ram 22.76
3 Subaru 20.90
4 Mazda 18.55
5 Lexus 18.35
6 Volkswagen 18.17
7 BMW 17.81
8 Toyota 17.18

LendingTree says:-


Furthermore, the nationwide averages hide big variations between different states.

Brand with highest driving incidents per 1,000 drivers by state:-

California Subaru 57.66
Hawaii Infiniti 52.83
District of Columbia Mazda 52.08
Iowa BMW 46.75
Maine Ram 46.27
Alabama BMW 44.40
Indiana Tesla 43.48
Idaho Volkswagen 38.51
Kentucky Tesla 35.29

If you want relevant data to support your narrative you will need to look elsewhere.

But. Subaru?

 

[gabeygoat]

But. Subaru?

lotsa Subarus get off road use

 

[Dr. Keith]

lotsa Subarus get off road use

And that causes incidents/accidents? And by lots you mean more than brands like jeep and Range Rover?

 

[a_unique_person]

But. Subaru?

WRX?