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Merged Murder investigation in UK after 39 people found dead in lorry container

a_unique_person said:
Netflix has an episode of the new series "Criminal" that is surprisingly relevant.
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Since season 2 of The Wire aired, I'd call it a pretty common TV crime procedural plot*.

*Which is not to trivialize the fact that people have been murdered in this fashion in reality both before and since.
 
zooterkin said:
Did you actually see the reports or are you dismissing them out of hand? What do you mean by 'hard evidence'?

There was, I assume, a taxi driver who said a group of people who didn't speak English who would give him a mobile phone, and a voice on the other end would tell him where to take them.

ETA: Also, please don't put something I didn't say in quotes and imply I did say it.
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No, I haven't seen it.

If a 'taxi driver' says so, it must be true. :D:thumbsup:

If Purfleet really is a drop-off point for illegal immigrants I'd like to know of verified occasions. Otherwise it just comes across as idle speculation after the event.
 
zooterkin said:
You seem to want it both ways; here you're racking up a nice pile of innuendo and suggestion, but earlier you said this:


Have you considered a career in tabloid journalism?
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On the one hand I am disgusted that the lorry driver has been labelled a 'mass murderer' by the media when not enough is yet known.

OTOH I see nothing wrong in speculating about who might have hired him and why he travelled all that way, many miles from his home as 'self employed'.

If he is involved then a ring of people smugglers has just been busted.

If he knew nothing about it and assumed it was just the usual biscuits and Irish mushrooms (which I often bought myself) then the poor guy can look forward to substantial damages from the UK media.
 
Vixen said:
No, I haven't seen it.

If a 'taxi driver' says so, it must be true. :D:thumbsup:

If Purfleet really is a drop-off point for illegal immigrants I'd like to know of verified occasions. Otherwise it just comes across as idle speculation after the event.
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When I speculated that it was a possible reason to stop the lorry there, I offered no evidence. I also offered no evidence when I speculated earlier in the thread that he had maybe stopped to check the load.

At the moment we know very little for certain and we are speculating a lot.
 
For whatever reason he stopped the lorry very soon after setting off and he checked the load.

It would appear those inside were already dead, so he was not stopping to investigate noises. He was not stopping at a shop or for fuel. If he had stopped to check say a warning light, would that mean he would check inside the container? Do refrigerated containers that are losing temperature warn the driver?

In press speculation;

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...d-before-reaching-belgian-coast-officials-say

"One report claimed detectives were focusing on three suspected gang members based in Northern Ireland near the border. The Daily Telegraph cited security sources saying they were concentrating on a criminal gang based in south Armagh with links to dissident paramilitaries."

In an incidental and speculative side story...

I went to NI a few months ago and was first on the ferry at Cairnryan as I was the only biker on that trip. I went to the restaurant, got a coffee and a nice seat and was dozing as the rest of the passengers arrived. When I came to I had the rather odd experience of realising that I was the only European I could see. The restaurant was full of Chinese, well over 50% of all the passengers were Chinese. Apparently they are mad for Game of Thrones and NI is the place to go. There has been a large increase not just in tourism, but also emigration. That would possibly make people smuggling less risky, as a Chinese person is quite a common site in NI and they want to go there.
 
Nessie said:
For whatever reason he stopped the lorry very soon after setting off and he checked the load.

It would appear those inside were already dead, so he was not stopping to investigate noises. He was not stopping at a shop or for fuel. If he had stopped to check say a warning light, would that mean he would check inside the container? Do refrigerated containers that are losing temperature warn the driver?

In press speculation;

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...d-before-reaching-belgian-coast-officials-say

"One report claimed detectives were focusing on three suspected gang members based in Northern Ireland near the border. The Daily Telegraph cited security sources saying they were concentrating on a criminal gang based in south Armagh with links to dissident paramilitaries."

In an incidental and speculative side story...

I went to NI a few months ago and was first on the ferry at Cairnryan as I was the only biker on that trip. I went to the restaurant, got a coffee and a nice seat and was dozing as the rest of the passengers arrived. When I came to I had the rather odd experience of realising that I was the only European I could see. The restaurant was full of Chinese, well over 50% of all the passengers were Chinese. Apparently they are mad for Game of Thrones and NI is the place to go. There has been a large increase not just in tourism, but also emigration. That would possibly make people smuggling less risky, as a Chinese person is quite a common site in NI and they want to go there.
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Just as a matter of interest, how did you know they were Chinese? I ask because it is a common misperception in London that Japanese tourists - of which there are many, as they are free to travel - are 'Chinese'.

My two 'Chinese-looking' friends are actually Indonesian and Malaysian, respectively. I also have a Filipino friend who also looks strongly Chinese.

I expect the police know the persons inside the container are Chinese because they found papers or documents on someone's person. Plus the fact it is very hard for Chinese migrants to be allowed to settle in the UK.
 
Vixen said:
Just as a matter of interest, how did you know they were Chinese? I ask because it is a common misperception in London that Japanese tourists - of which there are many, as they are free to travel - are 'Chinese'.

My two 'Chinese-looking' friends are actually Indonesian and Malaysian, respectively. I also have a Filipino friend who also looks strongly Chinese.
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I’d have thought most people would actually make the mistake the other way, since the Japanese tourist party is more of a stereotype.

That said, I have seen more parties of Chinese tourists than Japanese ones more recently, both in the UK and abroad (I spent some time in Japan, so I can usually tell if they are speaking Japanese or Chinese, or by elimination, Korean. I’m also aware of the Chinese communities in Malaysia other similar countries, but they don’t, as far as I’m aware, tend to arrive in such groups in the UK.).
 
Nessie said:
There should be a legal requirement for all trailer units to be opened by the driver and checked, prior to leaving the port.
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Breaking the Customs seals?
Also who pays for the time taken to load/unload eh contents?
 
Myriad said:
Completely impractical, for reasons having nothing to do with paperwork.

Here's a loaded semi-trailer, being turned over to an independent driver for the next leg of its delivery. The driver, required to check the contents of the load, opens the trailer's loading doors and sees... a wall of cartons, extending the full width of the trailer and within a few inches of its full height, which is two stories from the ground. The cartons say "Swimming Pool Filter GG2-225" and sure enough 100 of that item are on the bill of lading, but that's only about 5% of the entire load.

Is the load now checked, and he can close the doors and be on his way? Or should he climb up and give the bottom cartons a few good kicks, to make sure he's not really looking at a false cardboard wall with guns or drugs or dead bodies behind it? Or is he responsible for verifying that the cartons really contain swimming pool filters, as well as the rest of the load, which would literally take all day, plus a crew, lifting equipment, and a safe dry bay to do that work in?
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This.
 
Nessie said:
I went to NI a few months ago and was first on the ferry at Cairnryan as I was the only biker on that trip. I went to the restaurant, got a coffee and a nice seat and was dozing as the rest of the passengers arrived. When I came to I had the rather odd experience of realising that I was the only European I could see. The restaurant was full of Chinese, well over 50% of all the passengers were Chinese. Apparently they are mad for Game of Thrones and NI is the place to go. There has been a large increase not just in tourism, but also emigration. That would possibly make people smuggling less risky, as a Chinese person is quite a common site in NI and they want to go there.
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I went to NI in August on the same ferry and it was over-run by Slovenian tourists, with only their tour guide speaking fluent English. Being caught behind a bunch of them when trying to get lunch was annoying. I also did one of the Game of Thrones excursions. Don't remember seeing anyone Chinese at all!
 
zooterkin said:
According to the interviews I saw on TV, it seems to have been common knowledge that groups of foreigners were apparently being dropped off there.
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Yes, it seems reporters can't move for people ready to claim they see scores of migrants leaping from lorries every week, but presumably weren't interested in reporting that to the authorities at the time.
 
Vixen said:
Just as a matter of interest, how did you know they were Chinese? ...
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I don't, I am repeating what the press had said and it is now becoming apparent some at least may be Vietnamese.
 
Information Analyst said:
Yes, it seems reporters can't move for people ready to claim they see scores of migrants leaping from lorries every week, but presumably weren't interested in reporting that to the authorities at the time.
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Or, as a lady on the ITV news said, she had, but stopped because they did not appear to be interested. She described one turning up at a neighbours house begging...for some shoes.

Considering there are reports that people are paying £35k to be smuggled from China to the UK there needs, somehow to be more publicity to let prospective illegal immigrants know that they are being well and truly ripped off.
 
catsmate said:
Breaking the Customs seals?
Also who pays for the time taken to load/unload eh contents?
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If lorry drivers are made legally more responsible for what is in their lorry, I think they will be more inclined to ask questions, check documents and do what they can to check the load.
 
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