• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Electric Vehicles

Status
Not open for further replies.
Last edited:
SuburbanTurkey said:
Of course Tesla doesn't use standardized hardware. Truly the Wanker's car.
Click to expand...

Listen without Telsa the odds that EV would still be a niche product would be a lot higher. You get to make calls like that when you're the one actually making motion in the industry.

I get it. A lot of people really, really, really, want to hate Tesla. But you can't pretend the EV Market would (most probably) be anything like it is now without them.
 
A little over a year ago, I started shopping for an economical car to drive to and from work each day. I had pretty much decided on a two-year old Honda Fit that was about $12000.

Before buying it, I decided to see what else might be available at around the same price. I ended up buying a 2015 BMW i3 for just under $15K.

The i3 is larger inside and more comfortable. It has all kinds of tech features including navigation and adaptable cruise control that the Fit didn't have. I can climatize the cabin using an app so it is comfortable when I get in it. And, I get the equivalent of about two or three times the mileage. Back when I was actually driving to work, I was saving about $100 a month on fuel. That covered a big chunk of my loan payment.

The range is about 50 to 70 miles which is much more than I drive (drove) in a day.

Driving an EV is so much more refined than driving a gas powered vehicle. It is quieter. There is no exhaust or gas smell. Acceleration is quick and smooth. One-pedal driving is a pleasure. And, I don't have to stop for gas every week or two.
 
Last edited:
SuburbanTurkey said:
Are charging plugs not standardized? Seems like a major impediment to widespread adoption.
Click to expand...

As others have already mentioned, it depends.

The ones at Whole Foods are compatible, but the 3 times we’ve tried our charge light goes on, but then shuts off. We’ve mentioned the problem to the manager and gotten blank stares. Does not seem like a real priority to them, and with gas to fall back on it’s hardly a big deal for us either.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Listen without Telsa the odds that EV would still be a niche product would be a lot higher. You get to make calls like that when you're the one actually making motion in the industry.

I get it. A lot of people really, really, really, want to hate Tesla. But you can't pretend the EV Market would (most probably) be anything like it is now without them.
Click to expand...

Tesla is very good at marketing. I don't mean that as a negative, EV really needed an effective PR campaign to make them more desirable. Tesla's success in marketing electric cars as luxury vehicles has done a lot to mainstream the idea of EVs. Well done for them.

Musk's hot-dogging and general jackassery is a big part of that success, but seems just as likely to be the company's downfall. Tesla's popularity has as much to do with weird nerds and their personality cult as it does with the quality of the car and viability of the company.

As of yet, they are still a niche vehicle. The true hero of the EV revolution will be whoever comes out with an affordable electric car that is available in mass. Perhaps that will be Tesla, perhaps not.

The truth of the matter is that all new cars are a luxury. New luxury cars doubly so. Many people will not be able to afford an electric car until there is sufficient supply in the used market. I have never bought a new car and likely never will. My low mileage recent year Corolla was about half the price of the same car new, and the 30,000 miles it came with weren't worth paying double the cost.

I see hybrids in the used car market here and there, which is nice. Used Prius are pretty common. Hopefully electric cars will be entering the used market in the near future.
 
Last edited:
catsmate said:
Curious. In suburban Dublin where I live I've seen at least a dozen driveway charging points for private vehicles and there are at least as many on-street points within walking distance. Both nearby shopping centres, neither particularly large, have several. One has installed a bank of four points close to the exist specifically for over-night use. The newer apartment building with car parks have charging points and the multi-story has them on every level.

In the city centre they're obiquitous, especially in the Digital Docklands area. Most office car parks have them too. In fact I know of none of my usual clients, mostly IT/tech, who don't provide the. My nominal employer put them in two years ago and also rents a section of their ground level exterior parking space to a by-the-hour hire company which has six bays for their EVs.
All four hospitals that I've visited in the last year or so have charging point, one has four (free) points outside on the street.
Click to expand...

Laudable. Good for Dublin, but I'm fairly sure that the UK is miles behind that level of provision.

The small town of Usk, where we live, has precisely two and they've only just been installed. They're in a busy car park used, afaics, mostly by people commuting into Usk for their day's work. I walk right past them if I stroll down to the shops and often see non-EVs parked in those spots.

The larger Somerset town of Frome, where we used to live, appears to have precisely one.
 
A little user report from my side.

I've had a Tesla Model 3 LR since March 2019. It has a maximum theoretical range of 540km but I only charge it to 80% unless I'm on roadtrips.

I can charge at home in the garage at 17km/h which is more than adequate for topping up overnight, otherwise with the new generation of Tesla superchargers I can stick 400km of range on it in the time it takes me to go to the bathroom and buy a coffee and snacks. My daily commute during normal times is 12km each way and so I only need to charge every fortnight or so.

I've done a couple of roadtrips of over 2000km without any issues at all. It's true that I needed to check the location of superchargers along the route just in case, but at the same time my weakening bladder and decreasing tolerance for fatigue mean I can only drive in 2.5 to 3 hour bursts anyway. Less on the German autobahns which are extremely tiring.

My nearest city is getting increasingly aggressive about car pollution and the structures are already in place to restrict access by category of emissions during pollution peaks. It's good to be zero-rated already and unaffected by this, even if I rarely drive into the city centre anyway.

In summary, this solution really works for me and my circumstances. Last month I sold the two ICE vehicles I also owned because I simply wasn't using them at all and I can't imagine going back to petrol or diesel again.

Oh yeah, and the performance. Good grief the performance.
 
The Don said:
For commuters an alternative to charging at home could be charging at work (if there's a works car park) or at the station (if commuting by rail). I spend 30-45 minutes a week at the supermarket which would be plenty of time to recharge if there was a rapid charger there.
Click to expand...

One of my local grocery stores has a free charging station. It is a "Level 2" charger, not a Fast DC one.

I plug in when I shop there. Usually I spend about thirty minutes shopping. The charge adds about ten miles to my range. Based on what I pay for electricity, that's about 32 cents worth of electricity! Woo Hoo!

But, if all I am doing is driving to that store and back home, I would get home with more of a charge than I left with. That's actually pretty cool.
 
The whole piecemeal, charge a little here, charge a little there thing seems like a lot of hassle and ambiguity.

And again is only a valid option if you live in a dense urban core with a lot of charging solutions. There's not a charging station where I work. Or where I shop. My house is the only viable place I could charge an electric car.
 
GlennB said:
I don't know where you live, but 'charging possibilities' in a typical UK residential street are far from numerous, in fact you'd be hard pressed to find any at all. Most houses don't have an integral garage and you can't just run an extension cable out across the pavement/sidewalk to your car.

Charging stations at public car parks might sound plausible, but in the UK they're mostly 'pay for' and chock-a-block at the best of times. Also that wouldn't be much use if the nearest is half a mile away. Free supermarket car parks? They're generally 'no overnight stay' and often out of town. Nah, it'll be far from easy to install widespread EV charging facilities in many countries.

eta: And, of course, a lot of people live in flats, so even the extension cable plan wouldn't work.
Click to expand...

I saw an article - I'm a bit pressed for time right now but I'll try to find it later today - that in some neighborhoods like that there is movement towards adapting streetlights and their power supplies to be used as charging stations. Not right at the streetlight necessarily, but the underground electrical supply is already there, stepped down to the right voltage.
 
JoeMorgue said:
The whole piecemeal, charge a little here, charge a little there thing seems like a lot of hassle and ambiguity.
Click to expand...

It is certainly a different way of thinking about transportation, but it seems pretty simple and hardly ambiguous. I believe you learn to think of it in terms of adding range over time and making decisions that will give you the needed range in the least amount of time.

And again is only a valid option if you live in a dense urban core with a lot of charging solutions. There's not a charging station where I work. Or where I shop. My house is the only viable place I could charge an electric car.
Click to expand...

What are the odds your work will add charging if they got a tax benefit for it or if they could make money from it?

Now, apply that same thought process to the other places you visit on your day to day travels. If there is money to be had, won't they be looking to make that money?

As more people buy EVs more places will cater to those people. It will be in the wealthier areas first, but as mentioned upthread, there are affordable used options out there already. Retailers and businesses will adapt to that reality and will cater to those consumers. Gas stations with large convenience stores are actually ripe for this sort of updating.

Finally, in a pinch I bet there are lots of options out in the country, even your bit of the country. They are not typically labeled as EV charging points, but instead have signs that say Campground, KOA, or RV Resort. From what I've heard they are happy to take a few bucks for a fill and typically have 240 V 50 amp plugs all over the place.
 
Dr. Keith said:
What are the odds your work will add charging if they got a tax benefit for it or if they could make money from it?
Click to expand...

Seeing as how my office is virtual and doesn't have a physical location they own and all my work is done at client sites, I'd say fairly goddamn low.

Finally, in a pinch I bet there are lots of options out in the country, even your bit of the country. They are not typically labeled as EV charging points, but instead have signs that say Campground, KOA, or RV Resort. From what I've heard they are happy to take a few bucks for a fill and typically have 240 V 50 amp plugs all over the place.
Click to expand...

Yeah I could do that. Or I could go to one of the gas stations that is damn near literally on every corner and fill up in 2 minutes with enough to last me the entire week and not worry about it again
 
And again I'm not downing electric vehicles. My next car almost certainly will be one (probably a plug in hybrid or range extended electric car, I don't think I can viably go 100% electric just yet)

I just realize they are only viable for people in dense urban areas and "LOL just refuel at your friendly neighborhood local RV park" is insane.
 
Adapt.

The car was not invented because someone had a vision of the suburbs. The suburbs are an evolution based around the benefits and limitations of a technology.

And you will adapt to the benefits and limitations of a new technology. Things will look different.
 
JoeMorgue said:
And again I'm not downing electric vehicles. My next car almost certainly will be one (probably a plug in hybrid or range extended electric car, I don't think I can viably go 100% electric just yet)

I just realize they are only viable for people in dense urban areas and "LOL just refuel at your friendly neighborhood local RV park" is insane.
Click to expand...

Realistically, there's 2 places where cars tend to sit for hours on end that would make for good charging locations. Work and home. Either charging during the workday or overnight while people are home.

If neither of these options are available for lots of people in certain areas, it's hard to see EV catching on over the convenience of a gas car.
 
Last edited:
JoeMorgue said:
Seeing as how my office is virtual and doesn't have a physical location they own and all my work is done at client sites, I'd say fairly goddamn low.



Yeah I could do that. Or I could go to one of the gas stations that is damn near literally on every corner and fill up in 2 minutes with enough to last me the entire week and not worry about it again
Click to expand...

Not particularly about the quoted post, just about the general tendency.

I have seen this with a long row of innovations and new technologies: We all tend to employ a certain level of tunnel-vision, extrapolating mainly one parameter into the future, then complaining that it won't fit into the present. But there is an evolutionary process going on: The more EVs the more charging stations, and vice versa. The more EVs the better business they are and the more manufacturers will enter the competition for an increasing customer base.

Like biological evolution, it needs a push now and then. Ban incandescent lamps and LED sources bloom, driving quality up and prices down ... etc.

Hans
 
No every valid point is just naysaying.

It's the same problem with the bike cultist, they refuse to believe that anyone's vehicular needs are ever different from theirs and they always have some insane way to get around inherent downsides, even temporary ones, with their favorite mode of transport.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom