Dream Interpretations

[Julia Finley]

Greetings! I am a newcomer conducting an initial experiment, with the help of the JREF forum members. My goal is to 1) track and identify ambiguities in the dream interpretation process, and 2) observe how well dream interpretation can be expected to perform, were it submitted for Randi's Challenge.

Dreams deal with the sources of emotion, information that escapes one's awareness, or issues within oneself that require resolution. Post a dream. Soon after you will be given two "translations". One will come from me and the other from one of my volunteers instructed to create a dummy translation. Select the one you feel is correct, insightful, or accurate in the poll above. You may submit as many dreams as you wish until the experiment is closed.

Some guidelines:

1) A recent dream is younger than 60 days. Recurring dreams, so long as they continue into the present, are considered recent.

2) Please make sure your dream is at least three sentences long. You may provide background to the dream if you wish, but it is not required.

3) You may only post your own dreams.

4) If neither or both translations seem correct, please refrain from voting. Of course you're free to chirp about it here, as you knew all along it was woo, cold reading, bunk, etc. etc. etc., so don't feel left out!

Thank you in advance for participating. Please post your dreams.

 

[wardenclyffe]

I think you'll get a lot more participation if you include a third official choice of "Neither of the above." I think most folks around here would be honest in their assessments, but without that third choice, they would feel like their votes might not count. They'll ask themselves why they should bother to support one candidate over another when both might be completely wrong. If they are given the third option, they will be more likely to participate and they might be surprised at how accurate options A and/or B might be.

Also, both dream interpreters should make sure that they are unaware of the content of the other's interpretation and they should be posted within a minute of each other here on the board.

Ward

 

[Julia Finley]

I think you'll get a lot more participation if you include a third official choice of "Neither of the above." I think most folks around here would be honest in their assessments, but without that third choice, they would feel like their votes might not count. They'll ask themselves why they should bother to support one candidate over another when both might be completely wrong. If they are given the third option, they will be more likely to participate and they might be surprised at how accurate options A and/or B might be.

Also, both dream interpreters should make sure that they are unaware of the content of the other's interpretation and they should be posted within a minute of each other here on the board.

Ward

Agreed, but the poll is not meant to reflect all reactions that may develop. It's meant to simulate a challenge preliminary test. It's doubtful that 10 volunteers given 10 readings to choose from in some psychic test, for example, are allowed an 11th option of declining to answer.

Again, you are free to return the answer of "neither" and tell all about it in this thread, but not to place it in the slot.

 

[Rodney]

Thank you in advance for participating. Please post your dreams.

Okay, here's one from last night:

I'm riding on a subway that has just reached a stop. At I wait for the subway to continue, the driver announces that there will be major delays. Because I'm going only one more stop, I decide to walk to that stop. For some reason, however, there is a choice between walking to that stop underground or above ground. I hesitate, then decide to walk to it underground.

 

[bookitty]

Ok, I'll play. Here's my notes from a weird dream two days ago. It was written to remember not for clarity.
---
Call it early 80’s zombie apocalypse. The usual people running, screaming. Slow zombies lurching, biting chewing. Not so much blood.

Except they are changing. Eating brains like a planarian worms. The lurching is a little less, some of them have gotten crutches to help with flesh decay. Me and my group of wacky teen friends noticing. They are getting smarter.

Chase, fleeing, trying to out think but they get smarter with every person they eat. Concerns about going by a prison, will they get more criminal. Who cares! They’re zombies, right? Still, better to avoid Cal-Tech. Head for Wal-mart.

Get to a bay, looks like Maine. Sink all the boats but one. Use it to row out to some 18th century galleon, 3 tall masts. Still close to shore but deep currents, zombies aren’t dense enough to walk to us, swept away.

Later. Zombies pace the shore, hungry. The leader has a megaphone. Zombies have comic book philosophical argument about “the greater good” Like they are the new super humans so they deserve to eat our brains. Can we come to shore now? okthnx! I counter with people breeding for food. They need us to escape. No go, they’re hungry now. So are we.

Woke up.

 

[Cainkane1]

Greetings! I am a newcomer conducting an initial experiment, with the help of the JREF forum members. My goal is to 1) track and identify ambiguities in the dream interpretation process, and 2) observe how well dream interpretation can be expected to perform, were it submitted for Randi's Challenge.

Dreams deal with the sources of emotion, information that escapes one's awareness, or issues within oneself that require resolution. Post a dream. Soon after you will be given two "translations". One will come from me and the other from one of my volunteers instructed to create a dummy translation. Select the one you feel is correct, insightful, or accurate in the poll above. You may submit as many dreams as you wish until the experiment is closed.

Some guidelines:

1) A recent dream is younger than 60 days. Recurring dreams, so long as they continue into the present, are considered recent.

2) Please make sure your dream is at least three sentences long. You may provide background to the dream if you wish, but it is not required.

3) You may only post your own dreams.

4) If neither or both translations seem correct, please refrain from voting. Of course you're free to chirp about it here, as you knew all along it was woo, cold reading, bunk, etc. etc. etc., so don't feel left out!

Thank you in advance for participating. Please post your dreams.

I dreampt I was in a house across from a crypt. The house and the crypt are both in a cemetary which actually exists in real life. I was in the house but had no business being in there. A corpse came to the door of the crypt and saw me looking out from a window in the house. The corpse started running toward the house very unzombielike and I knew I couldn't outrun him. Never actually been in the house and I don't know anybody in the crypt.

 

[Baylor]

Dreams deal with the sources of emotion, information that escapes one's awareness, or issues within oneself that require resolution.

Evidence?

 

[Tricky]

2) observe how well dream interpretation can be expected to perform, were it submitted for Randi's Challenge.

I'm curious what you mean by that. A quick read of the challenge rules indicates that results of a trial must be clear and unambiguous. I am not sure how any sort of dream interpretation could be unambiguous. Are you comparing the interpretation to an actual event? Are you submitting interpretations to the dreamers and asking them which is the more correct interpretation, then statistically analyzing the results? Both of these have problems that it would be difficult to overcome in any sort of formal test.

Can you just give us a rough idea what your protocol for such a test would be?

 

[GlennB]

Dreams deal with the sources of emotion, information that escapes one's awareness, or issues within oneself that require resolution.

I wouldn't argue too hard against that statement. Some dreams are just random junk that the unconscious does its best to string together into a narrative. Others seem to reflect personal anxieties.

A recent dream, and one that I have occasionally, though the subject matter varies (conversation with friends tells me this is quite common) -

Can't get started

I am teeing off on the first hole of a golf course, with a playing partner or two. The ground is very hard and my tee peg will not stick in the ground. I try many spots to no avail. I find an old tee-peg hole and it looks promising, but as I address the ball the peg falls over. My partners are getting edgy, and so am I.
I get the ball teed-up, but then realise a litter bin or tree branch is right behind me. I'm very edgy indeed now, nearly panicking. Other people are gathering, waiting to play.
I decide to just place the ball on the ground and play it from there with an iron. I hit the ball out of bounds and have to start again ... couldn't be worse ...

(repeat for fishing, leaving the house for work, organising some DIY job...).
About once a month.

 

[Julia Finley]

Ok, I'll play. Here's my notes from a weird dream two days ago. It was written to remember not for clarity.
---
Call it early 80’s zombie apocalypse. The usual people running, screaming. Slow zombies lurching, biting chewing. Not so much blood.

Except they are changing. Eating brains like a planarian worms. The lurching is a little less, some of them have gotten crutches to help with flesh decay. Me and my group of wacky teen friends noticing. They are getting smarter.

Chase, fleeing, trying to out think but they get smarter with every person they eat. Concerns about going by a prison, will they get more criminal. Who cares! They’re zombies, right? Still, better to avoid Cal-Tech. Head for Wal-mart.

Get to a bay, looks like Maine. Sink all the boats but one. Use it to row out to some 18th century galleon, 3 tall masts. Still close to shore but deep currents, zombies aren’t dense enough to walk to us, swept away.

Later. Zombies pace the shore, hungry. The leader has a megaphone. Zombies have comic book philosophical argument about “the greater good” Like they are the new super humans so they deserve to eat our brains. Can we come to shore now? okthnx! I counter with people breeding for food. They need us to escape. No go, they’re hungry now. So are we.

Woke up.

Hi hon, we have a few questions:

- Did you go to Walmart instead of Cal-Tech, with regard for the zombies after you?
- Did you see all the zombies stay on shore, or were some swept away? Or what was swept away?
- Could you re-word the final sequence: "I counter with people breeding for food. They need us to escape. No go, they’re hungry now. So are we."

 

[bookitty]

I'm curious what you mean by that. A quick read of the challenge rules indicates that results of a trial must be clear and unambiguous. I am not sure how any sort of dream interpretation could be unambiguous. Are you comparing the interpretation to an actual event? Are you submitting interpretations to the dreamers and asking them which is the more correct interpretation, then statistically analyzing the results? Both of these have problems that it would be difficult to overcome in any sort of formal test.

Can you just give us a rough idea what your protocol for such a test would be?

Very interesting questions and probably worthy of a new thread if answered. I would love to see the protocol on this, especially the part that separates what we know of dream interpretation (Hello, Dr. Jung!) from what could possibly be paranormal. If there isn't anything paranormal going on, it is still an interesting experiment although not eligible for the MDC.

 

[bookitty]

Hi hon, we have a few questions:

- Did you go to Walmart instead of Cal-Tech, with regard for the zombies after you?
- Did you see all the zombies stay on shore, or were some swept away? Or what was swept away?
- Could you re-word the final sequence: "I counter with people breeding for food. They need us to escape. No go, they’re hungry now. So are we."

It's pretty vague now and because it was a dream it didn't always make sense. I've put words in quotes to show when it was dream logic.

There was "talk" of going to Wal-mart instead of USC. I don't remember if we did either.

We "knew" that the zombies would be swept out to sea, and because of that, we were safe on the boat.

I told the zombies that if they eat all the people, they will go hungry later. They need us for breeding stock. They didn't care because they were hungry now. Right before I woke up, I realized that the boat we were on had no food.

 

[Elaedith]

Greetings! I am a newcomer conducting an initial experiment, with the help of the JREF forum members. My goal is to 1) track and identify ambiguities in the dream interpretation process, and 2) observe how well dream interpretation can be expected to perform, were it submitted for Randi's Challenge.

Dreams deal with the sources of emotion, information that escapes one's awareness, or issues within oneself that require resolution. Post a dream. Soon after you will be given two "translations". One will come from me and the other from one of my volunteers instructed to create a dummy translation. Select the one you feel is correct, insightful, or accurate in the poll above. You may submit as many dreams as you wish until the experiment is closed.

<snip>

What do you mean by a 'dummy translation'?

 

[Audible Click]

I've had this recurring dream for about twenty years. I'm on a wide, white sand, beach. Back away from the beach there are huts with palm frond roofs. I know this is my village and that I belong there. I turn and walk towards the beach when I see the water pulling way back from the shore uncovering flopping fish and other detritus. Suddenly I see a huge tidal wave coming in and I run towards the village screaming for everyone to run or climb a tree but no one seems to hear me or notice the huge wave. Sometimes, in the dream, I'll climb a tree or run past the village. Just as the wave breaks I wake up.

 

[Julia Finley]

Hi Rodney, your dream was:

I'm riding on a subway that has just reached a stop. At I wait for the subway to continue, the driver announces that there will be major delays. Because I'm going only one more stop, I decide to walk to that stop. For some reason, however, there is a choice between walking to that stop underground or above ground. I hesitate, then decide to walk to it underground.

Translation A:

The subway represents the collective consciousness, the ideals and perspectives that drive us all as a collective. Like public transport, it is the motion and direction that is shared. Consider, therefore, in what ways it could represent ideas that are not your own. The subway stops are the goals and destinations that these ideas have focus on. They are set outcomes, such as world peace etc.

Knowing that your stop is just one more further, means you wish to take the journey itself further. You may have a "further" destination or goal than the collective, in some sense. Where the driver announces there will be major delays, the goal is not attainable within culture or society yet it must be attained as an individual goal.

Deciding to walk to the next stop, reflects circumstances. You realize you do not have the power to personally make it happen without the help or support of others and structures around you. Your choice of going above or below ground represents the choice to do it consciously or unconsciously. Alternatively, you may have to choose whether to reveal to yourself and others what your destination is, or to keep it hidden and private.

Choosing the underground passage means you have chosen to do it from the subconscious, choosing to keep it submerged and hidden at this point. The goal will still be attained but not in a public way.


(Please pause and re-read your dream again.)
Translation B:

To dream you are riding on the subway, means the dream will reflect progress in life from a subconscious point of view. Subway stops symbolize setbacks that must be tolerated, negotiated, and learned from, in order to progress as an individual.

The major delays reaching the next stop represent realization that some mode of mentality has served its use and come to an end, or that the mentality is no longer the appropriate approach to making progress in this pursuit.

Your stop being one stop away is the expectation that a resolution is nearing. You may find, instead, that a new chapter begins. Deciding to walk to the next stop represents the decision to move forward in spite of confusion or struggles.

The choice of walking above or below ground represents a choice between avoiding "deeper delvings", or exploring them. Choosing the underground passage shows your willingness to dive deeper into unawareness. Consider if it simultaneously seems like "the low road", or illegitimate in some way.

(Please pause, and choose which translation is correct, insightful, and/or accurate in the poll. You may refrain from voting, if neither or both seem correct, insightful, and/or accurate.)

 

[ExMinister]

I don't understand how dream interpretation could be used in a JREF challenge. Interpreting dreams does not require paranormal ability. It is a matter of becoming familiar with imagery that people tend to commonly associate with issues/feelings in their lives that they happen to at times bring into their dreams.

In what way is that paranormal?

 

[Tiktaalik]

How is the dreamer supposed to know which interpretation is "correct"?

I mean, one of the quality of dreams is that they are puzzling & it's difficult to figure out why the flip you dreamed that, a lot of the time.

Is the dreamer just supposed to pick which interpretation they like the best? How is that either A) scientific or B) paranormal?

I don't get it.

 

[fromdownunder]

I don't understand how dream interpretation could be used in a JREF challenge. Interpreting dreams does not require paranormal ability. It is a matter of becoming familiar with imagery that people tend to commonly associate with issues/feelings in their lives that they happen to at times bring into their dreams.

I agree with this. It is also subjective, and as far as I can see cannot be objectively measured, so I cannot see anywhere where it could become a challenge.

But I am interested in seeing where this goes, so I am inclined to let it go for the time being. It could be a fun thread.

Norm

 

[TJM]

OK, I'll play.

I'm walking down Davis Street, as I do nearly everyday. When I reach the intersection of Washington & Davis, I look to my left and there is a man there, a large black man wearing jeans and a red T-shirt and a ballcap. He has the appearance of a tradesman. When he sees me, he says angrily "There you are, you little mother!" He pulls a revolver from his waistband and opens fire but misses. I run away.

As I'm running, I'm no longer on the street, I'm now in the basement of a building I worked in 20 years ago. The basement was poorly maintained and there stacks of boxes, broken or discarded office furniture and janitorial supplies strewn about a maze of corridors and storage rooms. As I'm running my assailant would appear at nearly every turn and demand that I hold still so he can kill me. More shots are fired.

He never manages to kill me but I can't escape him either. The dream ends in a stalemate.

 

[Pup]

How is the dreamer supposed to know which interpretation is "correct"?

I mean, one of the quality of dreams is that they are puzzling & it's difficult to figure out why the flip you dreamed that, a lot of the time.

Is the dreamer just supposed to pick which interpretation they like the best? How is that either A) scientific or B) paranormal?

I don't get it.

I don't get it either. In horoscope tests like this, there's at least a theoretical underlying known layer of facts: the subject really is an extrovert, or in the process of changing jobs, or whatever, and could recognize that if they saw it in a reading.

In the case of dreams, no one, not even the dreamer, knows the "right" interpretation, if there even is such a thing.

Also, there's the usual problem of information leakage. Even if we don't know that the monster in the dream actually symbolizes the tiger that killed somebody's friend in real life, an interpretation can seem incredibly "right" if the interpreter claims it does. If someone has just posted in another thread about some occurrence in their real life, all it takes is a few clicks to learn how to interpret their dream in a way that seems especially relevant to them. While this leakage would surely be eliminated in a real test, it might bias the results in this trial.

I'm lousy at remembering dreams, probably because I don't pay much attention to them. I'll play anyway, if I have one that I can remember well enough in the next few days.