Crop circle debunking help needed

ufology said:
Assuming there are aliens here who want to communicate with humans, they are obviously highly intelligent and technologically advanced,
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Not really, that's quite an assumption to make.
I could equally assume that they are not intelligent and got lost in space because they are not technologically advanced enough to have developed an interstella sat nav system.
Liken it to a dopey student travelling round the world and upon jumping the wrong train, he finds himself in a strange country where he doesn't know the language or understand the culture. :)
What we do as humans is have a tendency to just keep saying stiff in our own language (maybe saying it really s-l-o-w-l-y or by SHOUTING IT, as if that's going to make any difference). So assuming that the unintelligent technically inept aliens primary language is 'pictograms in crops' on their own planet, it makes sense that they would try and keep trying to use it to communicate.

CC-2011.jpg
 
23_Tauri said:
Ah, but you didn't. You suggested to kittynh that a way to prove that crop circles were of human origin would be to demonstrate that aliens wouldn't do this sort of thing because - in your opinion - they made no sense as a way of communication. But unless you're an alien, you can't know this.

Your attempt to move the goalposts but now claiming that you meant to explain why from a human PoV it doesn't make sense for an alien to make a crop circle now makes your initial statement a nonsense. Doesn't it?


I'm aware that we can interpret why aliens may or may not make crop circles from a human PoV. By pretending that aliens are like us people decide that aliens either would or wouldn't use wheat as a medium for communication, depending on their confirmation bias. But this is worse than anthropomorphism. At least with animals, we've met enough of them to know a bit about how they think and what their motivations are. With ET, we have no inkling what form they might take. They might be amorphous blobs living off hydrogen for all we know. What is very unlikely is that - if they do exist - they look and think anything like humans.

IMO, your preconceptions about ET lead you to fall into the trap of confirmation bias by assuming that "if they could get here, then they'd use a better method of communicating than flattening corn" just as much is the person who believes that ET would use corn as a communication medium.
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I've not moved any goalposts. My original response was to the original question as stated. It is you who made the false assumption regarding the context of my initial response, appaently so you could have some maneuvering room to criticize me. Why don't you just stick to the topic instead? I'm not here to pick an argument with anyone; just offer some friendly advice.

j.r.
 
ufology said:
I've not moved any goalposts. My original response was to the original question as stated. It is you who made the false assumption regarding the context of my initial response, appaently so you could have some maneuvering room to criticize me. Why don't you just stick to the topic instead? I'm not here to pick an argument with anyone; just offer some friendly advice.

j.r.
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Ah, well it must've been my mistake, because when I read in your post 476 your words "it makes no sense as a means of alien communication" it suggested to me that you knew something about the motivations of aliens. It wasn't clear to me that you were making assumptions that aliens would think it silly to draw abstract patterns in crops to attract the attention of the locals. Which is odd, because that's actually what they have done.
 
Stray Cat said:
Not really, that's quite an assumption to make.
I could equally assume that they are not intelligent and got lost in space because they are not technologically advanced enough to have developed an interstella sat nav system.
Liken it to a dopey student travelling round the world and upon jumping the wrong train, he finds himself in a strange country where he doesn't know the language or understand the culture. :)
What we do as humans is have a tendency to just keep saying stiff in our own language (maybe saying it really s-l-o-w-l-y or by SHOUTING IT, as if that's going to make any difference). So assuming that the unintelligent technically inept aliens primary language is 'pictograms in crops' on their own planet, it makes sense that they would try and keep trying to use it to communicate.

CC-2011.jpg
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Bad analogy ... cool picture.


j.r.
 
23_Tauri said:
Ah, well it must've been my mistake, because when I read in your post 476 your words "it makes no sense as a means of alien communication" it suggested to me that you knew something about the motivations of aliens. It wasn't clear to me that you were making assumptions that aliens would think it silly to draw abstract patterns in crops to attract the attention of the locals. Which is odd, because that's actually what they have done.
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I had the same thought. I guess it's because we aren't qualified ufologists.

I wonder what the qualifications are, exactly.
 
23_Tauri said:
Why?
Why even assume that if crop circles were made by ET, that they are attempts to communicate with human beings?
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Because in answering the question posed by the thread, to quote:

"But eventually someone tells me that crop circles are REAL and done by aliens ...",

so I felt it was appropriate to address the issue in the context asked by the thread starter.

j.r.
 
ufology said:
Because in answering the question posed by the thread, to quote:

"But eventually someone tells me that crop circles are REAL and done by aliens ...",

so I felt it was appropriate to address the issue in the context asked by the thread starter.

j.r.
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An issue that was raised a year ago and dealt with comprehensively.

What new information have you brought to the discussion?
 
ufology said:
Because in answering the question posed by the thread, to quote:

"But eventually someone tells me that crop circles are REAL and done by aliens ...",

so I felt it was appropriate to address the issue in the context asked by the thread starter.

j.r.
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But why is the dopey student a bad analogy when we know nothing about extra-terrestrial life forms? Because, on a subject about which we know nothing, one can speculate all one likes.

Also, there is nothing in the OP that says aliens make crop circles in an attempt to communicate with humans. But your post #478 assumes crop circles = communication by aliens (albeit a poor one, because you then go on to say that they wouldn't communicate in this way because it's too primitive). I am saying, why make that assumption in the first place?
 
Akhenaten said:
An issue that was raised a year ago and dealt with comprehensively.

What new information have you brought to the discussion?
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Which is a good point. Ufology, why are you resurrecting all these Frankenstein threads?
 
Akhenaten said:
An issue that was raised a year ago and dealt with comprehensively.

What new information have you brought to the discussion?
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Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any other responses that were like mine, so I figured that it was new and might come in useful to someone some time.

j.r.
 
ufology said:
Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any other responses that were like mine, so I figured that it was new and might come in useful to someone some time.

j.r.
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In other words you didn't bother reading the thread at all but simply resurrected it to bypass the proscription on starting new flying saucer threads.

That's what I thought. TY for confirming.
 
ufology said:
Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any other responses that were like mine, so I figured that it was new and might come in useful to someone some time.

j.r.
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Please read the whole thread. I've read the thread although I barely remembered it before you necromanced it. IMO the whole crop circle as alien communication was discussed rather thoroughly and, although I'm sure you don't agree, I don't think you really added anything new to the discussion. I'd be happy to read anything new that you could add. Emphasis on new.
 
Audible Click said:
Please read the whole thread. I've read the thread although I barely remembered it before you necromanced it. IMO the whole crop circle as alien communication was discussed rather thoroughly and, although I'm sure you don't agree, I don't think you really added anything new to the discussion. I'd be happy to read anything new that you could add. Emphasis on new.
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You're missing the context. Advice was asked for on how to specifically deal with the issue. It's not relevant whether or not we've talked about crop circles before, The thread starter says, to quote, "Any help is welcome." So who are you to be giving me a hard time about offering my help?

j.r.
 
ufology said:
You're missing the context. Advice was asked for on how to specifically deal with the issue. It's not relevant whether or not we've talked about crop circles before, The thread starter says, to quote, "Any help is welcome." So who are you to be giving me a hard time about offering my help?

j.r.
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Someone who, just like the vast majority of us, realises that you have no interest in helping anyone to debunk nonsensical ET explanations for crop circles, and that you are, in fact, part of the problem.
 
I'm not missing the context and if you think that's "giving you a hard time" I'd suggest you report it.
 
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