Crop circle debunking help needed

23_Tauri said:
[qimg]http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p133/debs711/AlienSnowCircle-1-1.jpg[/qimg]
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Dammit. Now I've gone from snow circles to writing names in the snow to wondering if alien genitals look like a board tied to some string. Sometimes I hate my brain.
 
Wow, you guys are artists too! Amazing really. "cause everytime I try to post a pic it's turned down by rules.
 
Akhenaten said:
Which rule, mate? Rule 4 (copyright) or Rule 5 (hotlinking). Give us a bit more info and we might be able to help you do it all nice and legal.

:Banane37:
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I just got back from a call out of town , sorry for delayed reply, but when I posted the "basketweave" formation I downloaded it to my computer first, renamed it , and uploaded it, I still got the hotlink violation. Are these rules relatively new? I don't remember having these problems before.
 
chuck4842 said:
I just got back from a call out of town , sorry for delayed reply, but when I posted the "basketweave" formation I downloaded it to my computer first, renamed it , and uploaded it, I still got the hotlink violation. Are these rules relatively new? I don't remember having these problems before.
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I'm guessing you mean this post but I can't really tell what the problem might have been.

Both Rule 4 and Rule 5 have been around for yonks, so maybe there's something different about that particular picture.

Anyway, mate, we're going to get in trouble if we keep talking about it here, so I'd suggest sending a friendly PM to one of the Moderators and asking for some clarification.

Cheers, and I hope all is well.
 
Then just very quickly, I'd suggest it's about original copyright. The pictures me (and tauri) have posted are our own photos and artworks. :)
 
test

 
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Stray Cat said:
Yes, it's difficult to show a hidden code with a swear word in it that doesn't contain the swear word. However, when the mods deleted the picture I didn't whinge about it because I understood exactly why they'd done it. :)
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Well I kind of admitted that I thought it meant "Me a Dental HS student." But I guess it depends on who's translating the alien message. Shame on you for swearing, and me for drinking beer.
 
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kittynh said:
Some of you may know I work a lot with UFO and alien abductee believers.

One problem I have is with crop circles. WHen I talk about government conspiracy cover up (in regards to UFOs and aliens) I point out that with all the people involved, someone would talk. In fact lots of someones and honesty, can you see all the governments of the world cooperating on this "cover up"?

But eventually someone tells me that crop circles are REAL and done by aliens (they lose me hear, for all we know trolls could make crop circles). THey say "would all the poeple making these circles keep quiet?" I can point to the two nice old men that come forward, and some faked video, but for the number of circles I can't find much. I can find lots of explainations and lots of people that show how to make crop circles. But it seems that actual "I made THIS" confessions are few. Or maybe I don't know where to find reputable ones.


ALso, one lead I was following up (a member of a group that supposedly makes crop circles, though I never got a confession) told me "The reason you don't have more crop circle in the US is your farmers have more guns and aren't afraid to use them".

Any help is welcome. It seems if I can show "look anyone can make one" isn't the same as proving aliens didn't make them... sigh
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I would suggest that you try a different approach. There is no way to disprove that aliens aren't responsible for crop circles. All you can do is show that there are ways to explain crop circles as natural or manmade phenomena and that it makes no sense as a means of alien communication.

If you need explaining the so-called stranger aspects, I can provide you with plausible scientific explanations within the realm of present day science.

j.r.
 
ufology said:
I would suggest that you try a different approach. There is no way to disprove that aliens aren't responsible for crop circles. All you can do is show that there are ways to explain crop circles as natural or manmade phenomena and that it makes no sense as a means of alien communication.
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That strikes me as a curious thing to say, ufology. Could you explain to me why crop circles make no sense as a means of alien communication, and what insight you have into the alien mind in order to come to this conclusion. As you appear to have some as previously unknown understanding of the thought processes of extra-terrestrials, perhaps you could also explain what they would consider to be a logical and sensible form of communication with mankind.

Thanks :)
 
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23_Tauri said:
That strikes me as a curious thing to say, ufology. Could you explain to me why crop circles make no sense as a means of alien communication, and what insight you have into the alien mind in order to come to this conclusion. As you appear to have some as previously unknown understanding of the thought processes of extra-terrestrials, perhaps you could also explain what they would consider to be a logical and sensible form of communication with mankind.

Thanks :)
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First we're not talking about what I know about aliens, we're discussing ways of helping a psychologist debunk crop ciricles. So I'm not making any claim to having actual insight into the alien mind, only to the issue of crop circles as interpreted by humans to be alien communication. The rationale that addresses your questions that makes sense to humans is as follows.

Assuming there are aliens here who want to communicate with humans, they are obviously highly intelligent and technologically advanced, or they simply couldn't get here. That means they are going to have an understanding of many common universal prinicples that our own science relies on and that they would have little or no trouble understanding or duplicating. A fair bit of this logic was discussed by Carl Sagan who devised the communication strategies for the interstellar probes and SETI programs he was involved with.

So if we humans can figure out ways of communicating with aliens, and there is any commonality between us, then they will be able to figure out what we are saying fairly quickly and emulate it back to us. They wouldn't need to use nebulous imagery.

But even if we suppose that they might have problems figuing out our language, since we are presuming the aliens are using pictograms in fields, we can presume they must communicate using pictograms, otherwise they wouldn't put them there.

Pictograms are something we use in our own languages as a means of communication, therefore we can presume, that if the aliens are communicating using pictograms, and they are advanced enough to understand our technology and duplicate it, then they could simply transmit the pictograms by radio. Or if as some people have reported, they use energy beams, they could carve an entire manifesto into a dry lakebed from space.

In other words, if they really wanted to communicate ... there would be no lingering doubt about it ... they could make sure we know. So why haven't they? How do we know it's not a combination of hoaxers and secret government experiments designed as psychological warfare tests? Where is there a shred of information that shows these circles could not have been made by humans?

j.r.
 
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ufology said:
First we're not talking about what I know about aliens, we're discussing ways of helping a psychologist debunk crop ciricles. So I'm not making any claim to having actual insight into the alien mind, only to the issue of crop circles as interpreted by humans to be alien communication. The rationale that addresses your questions that makes sense to humans is as follows.
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Ah, but you didn't. You suggested to kittynh that a way to prove that crop circles were of human origin would be to demonstrate that aliens wouldn't do this sort of thing because - in your opinion - they made no sense as a way of communication. But unless you're an alien, you can't know this.

Your attempt to move the goalposts but now claiming that you meant to explain why from a human PoV it doesn't make sense for an alien to make a crop circle now makes your initial statement a nonsense. Doesn't it?

ufology said:
Assuming there are aliens here who want to communicate with humans, they are obviously highly intelligent and technologically advanced, or they simply couldn't get here. That means they are going to have an understanding of many common universal prinicples that our own science relies on and that they would have little or no trouble understanding or duplicating. A fair bit of this logic was discussed by Carl Sagan who devised the communication strategies for the interstellar probes and SETI programs he was involved with.

So if we humans can figure out ways of communicating with aliens, and there is any commonality between us, then they will be able to figure out what we are saying fairly quickly and emulate it back to us. They wouldn't need to use nebulous imagery.

But even if we suppose that they might have problems figuing out our language, since we are presuming the aliens are using pictograms in fields, we can presume they must communicate using pictograms, otherwise they wouldn't put them there.

Pictograms are something we use in our own languages as a means of communication, therefore we can presume, that if the aliens are communicating using pictograms, and they are advanced enough to understand our technology and duplicate it, then they could simply transmit the pictograms by radio. Or if as some people have reported, they use energy beams, they could carve an entire manifesto into a dry lakebed from space.

In other words, if they really wanted to communicate ... there would be no lingering doubt about it ... they could make sure we know. So why haven't they? How do we know it's not a combination of hoaxers and secret government experiments designed as psychological warfare tests? Where is there a shred of information that shows these circles could not have been made by humans?

j.r.
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I'm aware that we can interpret why aliens may or may not make crop circles from a human PoV. By pretending that aliens are like us people decide that aliens either would or wouldn't use wheat as a medium for communication, depending on their confirmation bias. But this is worse than anthropomorphism. At least with animals, we've met enough of them to know a bit about how they think and what their motivations are. With ET, we have no inkling what form they might take. They might be amorphous blobs living off hydrogen for all we know. What is very unlikely is that - if they do exist - they look and think anything like humans.

IMO, your preconceptions about ET lead you to fall into the trap of confirmation bias by assuming that "if they could get here, then they'd use a better method of communicating than flattening corn" just as much is the person who believes that ET would use corn as a communication medium.
 
ufology said:
Where is there a shred of information that shows these circles could not have been made by humans?
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A more fundamental question: Where is there a shred of information that shows that ET even exists?

Applying Occam's Razor renders the "space aliens cause crop circles" theory a moot point.
 
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