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Crop circle debunking help needed

Because I'm too lazy to look it up and I bet somebody on this thread knows off the top of their head...

How did the meme get started that crop circles are done by aliens? Why not ghosts or leprechauns? Why not just blame them on human vandals from the start?

In cities, mysterious writing and symbols show up overnight on walls and buildings. Nobody sees it happen, but everybody knows it's just kids with spray paint, and it does about as many dollars (or pounds) worth of damage--more, probably--than trampling crops, even though nobody's egging them on with tales of the supernatural. I suppose it would be possible to start a meme that some special graffiti is done by aliens, but it wouldn't be easy.

So how did the crop circle-alien story get started?
 
chuck4842 said:
Circlemakers destroying crops at night when nobodys looking for free(the farmers I'm sure object),
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It depends on the individual farmer. In Wiltshire each summer, although there are those who do react badly to having crop circles on their land and will mow out the formation (thereby destroying their own crop), many take a pragmatic view, putting out an honesty box so as to make a bit of money to compensate for having visitors on their land. I say a bit, but some of the amounts made from charging visitors have been not insubstantial. The farmer who had the Julia Set on his field next to Stonehenge in '95 made several thousand pounds (Stray Cat will remember the figure, I expect).

Here's an article from last year, in Farmer's Weekly, by Philip Simmonds, a farm manager, who had a crop circle in oil seed rape (canola) appear on his land:

http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/2010/06/01/121518/Hidden-truths-of-crop-circles.htm

Although he admits that "I would rather it had appeared on someone else's land" I think you'll be surprised at his practical approach and the very positive experience that he had as a result. Please take time to read it.

chuck4842 said:
then selling books on their site (with a limit of space depending the host) which aint free , and the one book other than their own is focussed on the experiences of disinformation and ufo's. What are the circlemakers? Their own publicity agents now?
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So you're cool with the whole "crop circles are made by aliens" bandwaggon which is arguably more to blame than the circlemakers for bringing hoards of tourists to Wiltshire each summer?
 
chuck4842 said:
The whole reason I joined JREF was because of JR's disgust of hoaxsters.
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Geeze, have I got bad news for you.

Why on Earth would you think James Randi would be disgusted with hoaxters. He's a bloody magician, for Aten's sake.

And as for the hoi-polloi here in the forum, I'd say that quite a few of us not only tolerate hoaxters quite well, but may, as the occasion demands, actually be hoaxters.

Wanna buy some Bunyip feathers?
 
23_Tauri said:
I dunno, Pup. Amongst many other factors it might have had something to do with the fact that the early, simple circles looked a bit like the alleged 'saucer nests' at Tully, Australia, in 1966.

1966 Tully Saucer Nest
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Well those are obviously real. Australians are far too upright and honest to even consider hoaxing anyone with fake evidences.

Would you like to buy some Bunyip feathers?
 
Pup said:
Because I'm too lazy to look it up and I bet somebody on this thread knows off the top of their head...

How did the meme get started that crop circles are done by aliens? Why not ghosts or leprechauns? Why not just blame them on human vandals from the start?
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Although Tauri's Tully UFO Nests is relevant to how early (single circle) crop circles were perceived by Colin Andrews and Pat Delgado, it was actually Doug Bower who first mentioned Tully in relation to them. Doug had lived in Australia for several years and he'd heard the stories of the UFO nests and always said (Since the exposé in 1991) that it was them that inspired him to make his first crop circles.

But it seems that right from the onset of the modern era of crop circles, they have been connected with UFO's, maybe because of the location of some during the late 70's in the Warminster area where there was a bit of a UFO flap at the time.

Other competing theories at that time included the work of Terrence Meaden who was the guy who said that crop circles were the result of unknown weather patterns/vortex like winds. As the theories were expanded on and the circlemakers responded to the various competing theories, Meaden had to admit that the increasing complexity of the designs ruled out weather as a possibility and he left the scene.

It's odd that when you look at early crop circles, they were no more than single circles, evolving later into triplets and concentrics and quadruplets into basic pictograms, they were even at that time considered by Colin Andrews and Pat Delgado to be beyond the capabilities of Humans... Laughable really but I shouldn't, because I was one of the people who believed it. :blush:
 
23_Tauri said:
The farmer who had the Julia Set on his field next to Stonehenge in '95 made several thousand pounds (Stray Cat will remember the figure, I expect).
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Colin Andrews says £15,000 on his website. (though accuracy isn't one of his strong points).
The lowest figure I've read over the years is £8,000 which bearing in mind that at that time the field full of crop wouldn't have been worth even a quarter of that, is good going.
 
chuck4842

Why would you trust your instincts above rational evidence against any ET crop-makers and ample evidence for human crop-makers, combined with the financial gain for photographers, farmers, tourist sites etc? Apart from the fact that an 'instinct' such as one for crop circle makers can be derived only from what has been learnt and read.
 
chuck4842 said:
The whole reason I joined JREF was because of JR's disgust of hoaxsters.
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Um, James Randi has been a "hoaxter" more than once. Research "Project Alpha".

chuck4842 said:
Circlemakers destroying crops at night when nobodys looking for free(the farmers I'm sure object), then selling books on their site (with a limit of space depending the host) which aint free , and the one book other than their own is focussed on the experiences of disinformation and ufo's. What are the circlemakers? Their own publicity agents now?
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I'm still really not sure what your objection is here. It seems to me like you've now been forced to concede that people don't starve because of circle makers' actions so you've had to try to find a way to re-focus your anger while keeping it on the same target. It doesn't make for a very convincing argument, I'm afraid.

I really think the crap boil is obvious enough for the average brainholding citizen reader such as me.
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Sorry, you've lost me again.

I'm not taking personal sides no more, from now on , all I've got is my own instincts.
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Or you could try logic and reason...
 
Akhenaten said:
Geeze, have I got bad news for you.

Why on Earth would you think James Randi would be disgusted with hoaxters. He's a bloody magician, for Aten's sake.
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Akhenaten said:
And as for the hoi-polloi here in the forum, I'd say that quite a few of us not only tolerate hoaxters quite well, but may, as the occasion demands, actually be hoaxters.
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What is a 'hoaxter' anyway? Is it someone from Hoxton?

(for the non-UKians, this trendy London borough is pronounced Hoax-ton by the rich bo-ho's who've recently colonised it, but was probably Hocks-ton in the 'apples 'n' pears olden days)

Akhenaten said:
Would you like to buy some Bunyip feathers?
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I don't know what they are Mr. Pharoah. Ok, I'll take ten. :D
 
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Stray Cat said:
Colin Andrews says £15,000 on his website. (though accuracy isn't one of his strong points).
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Well that's true at least. :D If you hang around long enough they'll be a world exclusive on that if you go to Colin's next lecture. Or maybe just the promise of one..... :rolleyes:

Stray Cat said:
The lowest figure I've read over the years is £8,000 which bearing in mind that at that time the field full of crop wouldn't have been worth even a quarter of that, is good going.
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No-one has yet written an undergraduate dissertation titled 'Crop Circles and the Wiltshire Tourist Economy' but it's probably only a matter of time. The Barge Inn is one such success that should be mentioned. Owned by Punch Taverns, a pub-co that has spent the last three years taking a scythe to its portfolio due to falling profits across the pub industry, (I know this, as the company I work for has been selling failing pubs off for Punch :( ) The Barge Inn at Honey Street in Wiltshire is a rare success story. At a time when many country pubs are struggling to survive, The Barge Inn has been the mecca for crop circle enthusiasts, filling up with campers, drinkers and canal boat owners each summer. With the leasehold up for grabs the villagers and various croppies clubbed together and with the help of a lottery grant raised the money to buy the lease off Punch Taverns and keep the Barge open. This ability to keep a community hub alive shows how positive the circles are for a small part of rural Wiltshire.
 
Akhenaten said:
Well those are obviously real. Australians are far too upright and honest to even consider hoaxing anyone with fake evidences.

Would you like to buy some Bunyip feathers?
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Now you're just being UnAustralian. Everybody knows bunyips have scales.
 
Interesting posts Stray Cat. You seem like the resident expert on crop circle making. How Many crop circles have you made and how many people do you know that make crop circles?

Are there any other people who make crop circles on here, or is it just you?
 
Pup said:
How did the meme get started that crop circles are done by aliens? Why not ghosts or leprechauns? Why not just blame them on human vandals from the start?

In cities, mysterious writing and symbols show up overnight on walls and buildings. Nobody sees it happen, but everybody knows it's just kids with spray paint, and it does about as many dollars (or pounds) worth of damage--more, probably--than trampling crops, even though nobody's egging them on with tales of the supernatural. I suppose it would be possible to start a meme that some special graffiti is done by aliens, but it wouldn't be easy.

So how did the crop circle-alien story get started?
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Because originally they looked like UFO landing marks. As simple circles I think it easier to see why people might have wondered about origin.
 
Hi Angel Love. Welcome to the paddock.


Angel Love said:
Interesting posts Stray Cat. You seem like the resident expert on crop circle making. How Many crop circles have you made and how many people do you know that make crop circles?

Are there any other people who make crop circles on here, or is it just you?
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Geeze. Run, SC, I think it's the cops!

:eek:


Angel Love said:
Because originally they looked like UFO landing marks. As simple circles I think it easier to see why people might have wondered about origin.
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How did people know what UFO landing marks would look like?
 
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