Merged 2024 Election Thread

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Brainster said:
You left out the crucial qualifier. He called "some" migrants animals. That seems to be a fair comment to me. The Venezuelan immigrant who attacked Laken Riley on her morning run, dragged her into a secluded area and killed her? Animal might be too kind; I think he's more pond scum.
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But it's a ******* throw away statement. It means nothing. You can say "some" of any insert_group_here are insert_comment_here. It's so useless that saying it does nothing to further any conversation. It's a statement without a point. It's the "well, technically" of arguments. Sure, to you him qualifying it by saying "some" rather than "all" is a fair comment. To me it's useless.

In any group of people that are larger than single digits you can make comments like these about anything. Some black people are self-hating racists. To you, that's a fair comment because, sure, it's "technically" true but who gives a ****** LoL. Where are we going with it?
 
It'a not abortion, it is the pocketbook stuff (which Trump also did badly other than the check at th end of the pandemic).

NYT/other link

If anything, Democrats may have a harder time focusing attention on abortion in a presidential election, when a larger portion of the electorate doesn’t follow politics closely and prioritizes pocketbook issues. Some of these voters are Black and Hispanic working-class Americans who tend to care less about abortion policy than white voters, Rachel Cohen of Vox has written.
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https://www.vox.com/politics/24101209/abortion-reproductive-freedom-biden-2024-election
 
Brainster said:
You left out the crucial qualifier. He called "some" migrants animals. That seems to be a fair comment to me. The Venezuelan immigrant who attacked Laken Riley on her morning run, dragged her into a secluded area and killed her? Animal might be too kind; I think he's more pond scum.
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If he was just talking about a particular person, you'd have a point. He wasn't. He made that perfectly clear throughout. Further, when he's going on with crap like "we have a new form of crime, it's called migrant crime," personally, I'm inclined to facepalm. He's pointedly working to stoke immigration fears with a grain of truth and a bunch of BS. BS like -

"And they're coming from jails and they're coming from prisons and they're coming from mental institutions and they're coming from insane asylums and they're terrorists," Trump said, adding that jails from all over the world are "emptying out" into the U.S.
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None of that is remotely factual in any actually meaningful sense.

To add a bit more context about that case from the details that I linked to before -

Authorities say Garcia and Ortiz-Vite were in a “romantic relationship." Kent County Prosecutor Chris Becker said in announcing the charges that "this is another case of a domestic violence homicide that we’ve seen, quite frankly, far too often over the last few years."

The killing received minimal attention until a conservative media outlet began reporting that Ortiz-Vite was an “illegal immigrant.” Republicans across Michigan began citing the case to highlight issues at the southern border. Soon after, Trump announced that he would travel to Grand Rapids for a campaign event.

Trump initially correctly referred to Garcia as a 25-year-old on Tuesday before later saying that she was a 17-year-old. He also said that his administration had thrown Ortiz-Vite "out of the country and crooked Joe Biden took him back and let him back in and let him stay in and he viciously killed Ruby.”

But Trump has no way of knowing whether Ortiz-Vite returned to the U.S. on Biden's watch or his own. Ortiz-Vite had been deported in September 2020 following a drunk driving arrest, a little over a year after his status with the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program expired, according to Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Immigration officials don't know whether Ortiz-Vite reentered the country in the final months of Trump's presidency or during Biden's tenure.
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Any domestic violence homicide is bad.

That this one is being singled out because it's one of the rare cases that involve an illegal immigrant and puts all the focus on the immigration status of the perpetrator, rather than something more meaningful, is just annoying. It's cynically understandable that it would be singled out to reinforce a fundamentally weak political narrative, but is no less condemnation-worthy for all that. To be clear, calling it fundamentally weak is well deserved. Illegal immigrants are generally significantly less likely to commit serious crimes than natives are, contrary to the political narrative being pushed, cities with more immigrants tend to have lower crime rates, and immigrant crime isn't remotely some "new" thing that's just started recently. Perhaps more to the point there, it was quite definitely ongoing during his Administration, with his Administration not doing much to make things better, to put it nicely.


plague311 said:
But it's a ******* throw away statement. It means nothing. You can say "some" of any insert_group_here are insert_comment_here. It's so useless that saying it does nothing to further any conversation. It's a statement without a point. It's the "well, technically" of arguments. Sure, to you him qualifying it by saying "some" rather than "all" is a fair comment. To me it's useless.

In any group of people that are larger than single digits you can make comments like these about anything. Some black people are self-hating racists. To you, that's a fair comment because, sure, it's "technically" true but who gives a ****** LoL. Where are we going with it?
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Pretty much. Still, as I just pointed out in more depth, even that technicality is remarkably weak. Trump is outright lying about a bunch of immigration things as he works to stoke fears about immigrants more generally. Saying that Trump's only talking about the bad ones when he's lying and misrepresenting things as a whole just doesn't work, unless one's willfully turning a blind eye to such. This isn't some one off thing, either, of course. Trump's got quite the history when it comes to demonizing immigrants with falsehood and BS and lying about immigration and border matters in general. He's long, long past any reasonable benefit of the doubt on the subject.

Incidentally, as a side note from that last link -

The president insists that a border wall is needed to stop the entry of dangerous drugs along the southern border. However, the Justice Department’s Drug Enforcement Administration has concluded that most drug trafficking occurs through ports of entry into the United States, not in between them. CBP drug seizure data confirm this finding. Additionally, the purest form of fentanyl, an extremely strong opioid, is often transported into the United States through the mail. A wall would do little to stop this. In an effort to halt the trafficking of these dangerous drugs into the country, the Democratic House members appointed to the conference committee currently considering the fiscal year 2019 Homeland Security appropriations bill have proposed far more effective solutions: investing in new screening equipment “at the land ports of entry” and purchasing “new equipment at mail processing facilities.”
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Which would you prefer? A useless wall or measures that would actually help address the issue? At last check, the Republicans put virtually no attention on the ports of entry and decided to sabotage the mail system despite that. I see no reason, whatsoever, to trust them or Trump to actually make things better.
 
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plague311 said:
But it's a ******* throw away statement. It means nothing. You can say "some" of any insert_group_here are insert_comment_here. It's so useless that saying it does nothing to further any conversation. It's a statement without a point. It's the "well, technically" of arguments. Sure, to you him qualifying it by saying "some" rather than "all" is a fair comment. To me it's useless.
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You mean a politician said a lot of empty words?:eek:

In any group of people that are larger than single digits you can make comments like these about anything. Some black people are self-hating racists. To you, that's a fair comment because, sure, it's "technically" true but who gives a ****** LoL. Where are we going with it?
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The people who say that about Justice Thomas or Tim Scott seem to think it means something.
 
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Anyway the Republicans are well and truly screwed in Arizona. The abortion measure is going to be on the ballot and it's going to draw Democrats, independents and moderate Republicans out of the woodwork to vote.
 
Brainster said:
Anyway the Republicans are well and truly screwed in Arizona. The abortion measure is going to be on the ballot and it's going to draw Democrats, independents and moderate Republicans out of the woodwork to vote.
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I wholeheartedly agree and I think more states are probably going to do the same thing. It's not a half bad strategy, which means the Dems will somehow **** it up royally.
 
plague311 said:
It's not a half bad strategy, which means the Dems will somehow **** it up royally.
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Relying on your opponent's incompetence to save you from your opponent's malevolence is a terrible strategy, pretty much the worst anybody could come up other than directly working against yourself (which happens to be what the Republicans are going with at the moment).

The only reason the Democrats are left with having to resort to such pitiful dependence on Republican autopodal ballistics is because they've already ********** up everything else. (****t up for the Brits)
 
Brainster said:
Anyway the Republicans are well and truly screwed in Arizona. The abortion measure is going to be on the ballot and it's going to draw Democrats, independents and moderate Republicans out of the woodwork to vote.
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This is good.

Killing Roe has shown us all what the Republicans truly are.
 
Delvo said:
Relying on your opponent's incompetence to save you from your opponent's malevolence is a terrible strategy, pretty much the worst anybody could come up other than directly working against yourself (which happens to be what the Republicans are going with at the moment).

The only reason the Democrats are left with having to resort to such pitiful dependence on Republican autopodal ballistics is because they've already ********** up everything else. (****t up for the Brits)
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If you say so, I'm not going to argue with you. Perpetual negativity with regards to the Dem Party is your schtick lately. Using a hot button issue to help drive voters to the polls when it will knowingly help your party seems like a great strategy, but I've learned awhile ago not to argue about **** like this. No matter what I say, you ain't ******* having it anyway. Your posts have repeatedly shown that you just want to bitch and moan about anything the dems do, so have at it. Don't let me get in your way.
 
plague311 said:
Using a hot button issue to help drive voters to the polls when it will knowingly help your party seems like a great strategy
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Ah, so you're referring to the "using" part. You had quoted a quote which had only mentioned Republican actions, not Democrat actions, so the context made it look like the Democrat strategy you had in mind was "Republicans shooting their own feet for us"... rather than "taking advantage if/when the Republicans do shoot their own feet".
 
dirtywick said:
https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/w...group-on-statehouse-senate-floor-208756293715

here the arizona republicans are praying and speaking in tongues on the house floor

pretty cool guys
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I saw a photo of the Republicans are praying and speaking in tongues on the house floor on Facebook, but thought it was a joke. Good to see elected officials going to work like that. :boggled:

I tried to watch the MSNBC clip, but wouldn't even make it to the part where they showed the Republicans. Who on Earth can stand to watch that level of hair on fire propaganda?
 
dirtywick said:
https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/w...group-on-statehouse-senate-floor-208756293715

here the arizona republicans are praying and speaking in tongues on the house floor

pretty cool guys
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OMG! When I was in high school one of our friends was murdered at the gas station he worked at. So my girlfriend wanted to go to church and I went along. We picked a church at random, not sure how we ended up there but it was a Pentecostal church and people did that, they started speaking in tongues, some were on their knees in the aisles and in front of the pews. None of them were praying out loud in English. We left stunned, wondering what we had just witnessed.
 
sir drinks-a-lot said:
I saw a photo of the Republicans are praying and speaking in tongues on the house floor on Facebook, but thought it was a joke. Good to see elected officials going to work like that. :boggled:

I tried to watch the MSNBC clip, but wouldn't even make it to the part where they showed the Republicans. Who on Earth can stand to watch that level of hair on fire propaganda?
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-Signed the guy that goes to far-right websites that consist of nothing but perpetual hair on fire propaganda about Dems.

It's just that the propaganda isn't yours. If it is, you have no issues watching it from beginning to end.
 
plague311 said:
-Signed the guy that goes to far-right websites that consist of nothing but perpetual hair on fire propaganda about Dems.

It's just that the propaganda isn't yours. If it is, you have no issues watching it from beginning to end.
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I don't take in anything anywhere nearly as hair-on-fire as MSNBC and CNN (it's hard to think of anything). Their "newscasters" have even broken down in tears during broadcasts several times. :eye-poppi
 
sir drinks-a-lot said:
I saw a photo of the Republicans are praying and speaking in tongues on the house floor on Facebook, but thought it was a joke. Good to see elected officials going to work like that. :boggled:

I tried to watch the MSNBC clip, but wouldn't even make it to the part where they showed the Republicans. Who on Earth can stand to watch that level of hair on fire propaganda?
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never mind i don’t care about this
 
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sir drinks-a-lot said:
I don't take in anything anywhere nearly as hair-on-fire as MSNBC and CNN (it's hard to think of anything). Their "newscasters" have even broken down in tears during broadcasts several times. :eye-poppi
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pffhahahahahahahahahahahahaha *deep breath* hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

So just for ***** and giggles I decided to go to instapundit just to make sure you were telling the truth and guess what I found posted at 3:20 p.m (just 20 minutes ago). An article titled "Forget 'Fundamental Transformation': Today's Dems Want to End America".

The article had such lines as:

"Killing babies has become a rite of passage for left-wing women..."

and

"It has become important to the Democrats to advocate for abortion as much as possible because fewer babies means fewer future Americans (and potential Republican voters)".

But yeah, totally not "hair-on-fire". Just fact based journalism there.
 
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