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Merged why the release of names associated with Epstein mean little to absolutely nothing.

Helen said:
Power imbalance is a thing, and between Epstein/Maxwell and the girls they abused, there was no balance at all. Grooming is sometimes very subtle, and very difficult to see if you are inexperienced, and just like domestic abuse, the process is insidious, and debilitating to the victim, who will be taught to think that no one else will want them, or care for them.

Or, for that matter, believe them.

Maybe he didn't abuse everyone. That does not mean that he didn't abuse anyone.
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I think you also need to look at Maxwell as a victim as a groomer. when epstein first took her on she was young, she had just moved to the US, had no family near, her father died, she lost her job and home and was penniless as her father's estate took a long time to sort out. She was shunned because of the scandal around her father. If Epstein groomed young women that included grooming Maxwell. Like Giuffre / Roberts she was both a victim and a facilitator.
 
You're not sceptical, Venom, it
Planigale said:
I think you also need to look at Maxwell as a victim as a groomer. when epstein first took her on she was young, she had just moved to the US, had no family near, her father died, she lost her job and home and was penniless as her father's estate took a long time to sort out. She was shunned because of the scandal around her father. If Epstein groomed young women that included grooming Maxwell. Like Giuffre / Roberts she was both a victim and a facilitator.
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Iirc, she was 30 when they met and had been married. She was used to that kind of circle, and he wasn't that much older than her, so I"m not ready to give her the benefit of the doubt.
 
Ghislaine's Dad was a big villain, destroying Science Publishing, stealing Pension Funds and selling journalists out to the Mossad. He pretty much got a State Funeral in Israel, for crying out loud. The idea that his daughter would have any trouble finding someone to help her do whatever she wants is laughable.
She might have been a victim in her youth of ..something we don't know... but that is not excuse, morally or legally, for grooming schoolgirls for sex work and coercing them into recruiting their friends and classmates to do the same.

Btw, the money Maxwell Senior he stole was never recovered, and not a few people think it might have ended up with Epstein.
 
yeah i think the financials of the epstein ring are still a bit of a mystery. like yeah he was an unofficial advisor type for a few billionaires, but that doesn't seem sufficient to explain how he nearly became one himself imo
 
Everyone on Wall Street not in the limelight will tell you that there is - no way - Epstein should have gotten his job there (or as a teacher at a girl's school before that) without any qualifications or experience, and, that there is -no way- Epstein could have made that much money in his position; no one else had ever done that, and by all accounts Epstein was neither particularly good or worked hard. The Super Rich don't just hire One Person for their stuff, they hire a company with a Staff.
It just Does Not Happen.

Also, a multi-millionaire giving Epstein total control over all his finances is just not something that happens, either.

It is utterly impossible to explain Epstein's career without Extortion.
 
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It is really simple: at least 2 government agencies have the list of transactions of Epstein withdrawing cash to give to "his girls".
In 2004-2005 alone, he withdrew more than $1.7million in cash.
www.finance.senate.gov

The United States Senate Committee on Finance

With JPMorgan Chase Dodging Epstein Inquiry, Wyden Investigation Drills Down On Bank Executives’ Unexplained Conduct
www.finance.senate.gov

Epstein and Maxwell paid $200 for a girl to give someone a massage.
We are not talking about just a few victims. He are talking about dozens and dozens.


In total, over $1.5 BILLION of Epstein's transactions were flagged as suspicious, BUT NOTHING WAS EVER DONE ABOUT THAT !!!

sorry, but if there was ever evidence of a massive conspiracy and coverup, you can't get more obvious than that.
 
Explain billions in flagged transactions not being investigated.
I'm sure you can provide plenty of examples.

The Senate Committee certainly thinks it's suspicious - guess you must know more than they do
 
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To make it even simpler:

Thermal, do you believe that if the Epstein case, including the financial parts and the Intelligence angle (“I was told Epstein ‘belonged to intelligence’ and to leave it alone,”) was properly investigated, would it all turn out to be a big nothingburger, or would we find that a lot more crimes had been committed?
 
The Great Zaganza said:
To make it even simpler:

Thermal, do you believe that if the Epstein case, including the financial parts and the Intelligence angle (“I was told Epstein ‘belonged to intelligence’ and to leave it alone,”) was properly investigated, would it all turn out to be a big nothingburger, or would we find that a lot more crimes had been committed?
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A third or fourth hand quote from a 2019 New York Post article by Vicky Ward. As Michael Tracey points out, her source was likely Steve Bannon, as he and Ward were collaborating around that time about some book. And Bannon isn't exactly the most reliable source.

When Alexander Acosta himself was questioned about it under oath, he said he was NOT told of such a thing, the only real record of Acosta addressing the claim (p. 169).
 
The Great Zaganza said:
To make it even simpler:

Thermal, do you believe that if the Epstein case, including the financial parts and the Intelligence angle (“I was told Epstein ‘belonged to intelligence’ and to leave it alone,”) was properly investigated, would it all turn out to be a big nothingburger, or would we find that a lot more crimes had been committed?
Click to expand...
You might be misunderstanding: I agree with you. It just feels uncomfortable to be on the Conspiracy Advocate side of the line. Kinda got used to them being the kooks.
 
Thermal said:
You might be misunderstanding: I agree with you. It just feels uncomfortable to be on the Conspiracy Advocate side of the line. Kinda got used to them being the kooks.
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If conspiracies weren't ever a real thing we wouldn't have a word for them.
 
Thermal said:
You might be misunderstanding: I agree with you. It just feels uncomfortable to be on the Conspiracy Advocate side of the line. Kinda got used to them being the kooks.
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the government was less corrupt at the time
 
The Great Zaganza said:
It is really simple: at least 2 government agencies have the list of transactions of Epstein withdrawing cash to give to "his girls".
In 2004-2005 alone, he withdrew more than $1.7million in cash.
www.finance.senate.gov

The United States Senate Committee on Finance

With JPMorgan Chase Dodging Epstein Inquiry, Wyden Investigation Drills Down On Bank Executives’ Unexplained Conduct
www.finance.senate.gov

Epstein and Maxwell paid $200 for a girl to give someone a massage.
We are not talking about just a few victims. He are talking about dozens and dozens.


In total, over $1.5 BILLION of Epstein's transactions were flagged as suspicious, BUT NOTHING WAS EVER DONE ABOUT THAT !!!

sorry, but if there was ever evidence of a massive conspiracy and coverup, you can't get more obvious than that.
Click to expand...
Do you have links to those public reports about his JPMC withdrawals in In 2004 and 2005? Cause there’s no evidence anyone besides the people in his Palm Beach home knew about his activity in 2004. The investigation only began in March 2005 and it’s unlikely his business associates knew about it before his indictment, if at all.

His association with JPMC and DB after his release from jail is more questionable. But there’s no evidence Epstein had any contact with underage females after his release and he was registered as a sex offender for life. If your position is that that should disqualify someone from being a client, I disagree. And banks seemed to accept him despite the explosive, evidence-free public allegations of Virginia Roberts in 2014. All other claims that time were publicly known and he served his time for them and seemed to be abiding by the terms of his plea agreement.

The Great Zaganza said:
Everyone on Wall Street not in the limelight will tell you that there is - no way - Epstein should have gotten his job there (or as a teacher at a girl's school before that) without any qualifications or experience, and, that there is -no way- Epstein could have made that much money in his position; no one else had ever done that, and by all accounts Epstein was neither particularly good or worked hard. The Super Rich don't just hire One Person for their stuff, they hire a company with a Staff.
It just Does Not Happen.

Also, a multi-millionaire giving Epstein total control over all his finances is just not something that happens, either.

It is utterly impossible to explain Epstein's career without Extortion.
Click to expand...
He was by all accounts a math wiz and perhaps above average in intelligence. And he was very charming. Nerdy and sociable is a rare but I would imagine successful combo.

With that he cultivated a vast circle of rich and influential friends, some of whom became his clients. He managed their money; that's what he was good at. And he made good investments. He was never a billionaire.
 
Venom said:
Do you have links to those public reports about his JPMC withdrawals in In 2004 and 2005? Cause there’s no evidence anyone besides the people in his Palm Beach home knew about his activity in 2004. The investigation only began in March 2005 and it’s unlikely his business associates knew about it before his indictment, if at all.

His association with JPMC and DB after his release from jail is more questionable. But there’s no evidence Epstein had any contact with underage females after his release and he was registered as a sex offender for life. If your position is that that should disqualify someone from being a client, I disagree. And banks seemed to accept him despite the explosive, evidence-free public allegations of Virginia Roberts in 2014. All other claims that time were publicly known and he served his time for them and seemed to be abiding by the terms of his plea agreement.
Click to expand...

i'll link it again here from earlier in the thread, nytimes article about his relationship with jp morgan, how they ignored their own systems for flagging financial crimes, and how much money they were making off of doing so.
 
From the Senate Finance Committee’s Gish gallops the blackmail stuff seems superficially plausible. But very little is actually as it would be if this was true. I’ve mentioned Brad Edwards; if anyone has an incentive to push the blackmail theory it’s him. He’s sued on accusers’ behalf several times. He’s “the man who took down Epstein”. He’s spent the last decade looking into non-public documents. He’s seen no evidence of blackmail. Neither has David Boies from what I know.

Leon Black cut ties with Epstein over a two-year fee dispute and that doesn’t look like something someone being extorted over some super scandalous stuff would readily do. Ron Wyden points out Black still paid Epstein $20 million on the final payment he and his attorneys felt Epstein didn’t deserve. That’s supposed to be suspicious. I find it more interesting that Black shorted Epstein $40 million and Epstein spent the next two years bitching over fees when, as we’re supposed to believe, Epstein could have dropped the dime on him at any moment. If he had any reason to release the Cheri Pierson files, that would’ve been it!

I’m interested in what Wyden meant by Eastern European women being trafficked to the U.S. We already know Epstein acquired many Eastern European women, but the exact nature of their contact with him and travel isn’t made clear. It’s probably not even clear to the Finance Committee which is why they’re asking for a second look.

And we’re supposed to believe Kash Patel, Pam Bondi, Scott Bessent, Dan Bongino, especially Patel and Bongino who were constantly conspiracy mongering in the podcast space, suddenly don't give a ◊◊◊◊? Call me naïve I’ll call you cynical. “Stopping the pedos” just isn’t a topic I think they could flipflop on that hard unless there really isn’t much there. They are getting enormous pushback from the alt media Bros. It just doesn't ring true.

I do find Senator Wyden and the Finance Committee’s work valuable in some respects. The investigation could crack the mystery of how exactly Epstein made his money, his relationship with Leon Black and Les Wexner, etc. I’m annoyed by the endless hunt for potential “negligence” on the part of any individual or institution who ever had any contact whatsoever with Jeffrey Epstein at any point in his life. Maybe some of them do deserve scrutiny and might have to pay for their negligence. I reject the idea that there was a conspiracy to actively assist Epstein for sex with minors though, at least on the scale Wyden and friends are insinuating and most of the public seem to believe uncritically.
 
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