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Trump's promised ICE raids have begun

a_unique_person said:
It did not matter if Biden dropped out early, dropped out when he did, or stayed in the race until the very end. It did not matter if the candidate was Biden, Harris, or a rotting turnip.

Whomever the democrats could have put forward was better than Stubby McBonespurs, given the fact that Trump was a convicted felon who tried to overthrow democracy in his first time around, who put forward policies that were destructive to the U.S. Any trump supporter trying to shift blame by saying "I might have voted democrat but I didn't like the way Harris was nominated" is just trying to excuse their own racism.
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The problem was Biden was incapable of putting forward a voluble narrative that kept swing voters onside. When it was time for the election they felt no connection with the Democratic party and were just left with bills to pay. It should have been possible to counter the chaotic Trump campaign and a candidate who was seriously flawed.
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Here is the problem with that argument...

Whatever mental problems Biden was having at the time, Trump's were worse... His rally speeches were jumbled word-salads that had no meaning, he made significant gaffs, couldn't remember basic facts, etc.

Anyone who voted for Trump because "Biden was showing signs of dementia" is both a massive hypocrite, and also using the issue of Biden's mental capacity to excuse their own racism.
 
Segnosaur said:
Here is the problem with that argument...

Whatever mental problems Biden was having at the time, Trump's were worse... His rally speeches were jumbled word-salads that had no meaning, he made significant gaffs, couldn't remember basic facts, etc.

Anyone who voted for Trump because "Biden was showing signs of dementia" is both a massive hypocrite, and also using the issue of Biden's mental capacity to excuse their own racism.
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I think in Biden's case it wasn't so much the "crime", but the cover-up.
 
Segnosaur said:
Here is the problem with that argument...

Whatever mental problems Biden was having at the time, Trump's were worse... His rally speeches were jumbled word-salads that had no meaning, he made significant gaffs, couldn't remember basic facts, etc.

Anyone who voted for Trump because "Biden was showing signs of dementia" is both a massive hypocrite, and also using the issue of Biden's mental capacity to excuse their own racism.
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Trump was out there selling a message. It was a random inconsistent and impossible one but it was a message. No-one was listening to Biden the free times he did speak, by then it was too late. Many elections are lost because people just spent listening.

One thing I notice consistently from focus groups about Trump is that people think he is a successful businessman. Biden should have been attacking that every day.
 
a_unique_person said:
Trump was out there selling a message. It was a random inconsistent and impossible one but it was a message. No-one was listening to Biden the free times he did speak, by then it was too late. Many elections are lost because people just spent listening.

One thing I notice consistently from focus groups about Trump is that people think he is a successful businessman. Biden should have been attacking that every day.
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Sorry, but I'm sick and tired of hearing what Biden, Harris or the Democrats did wrong.

If you're getting on a flight and one of the two pilots available is Osama bin Laden, it shouldn't matter if the other is female, black, and (to some people) laughs funny, or dosen't take a clear enough stand on airplane hijackings, or that she joined late and nobody really knows her.

The Dems lost because a majority of Americans are fine with authoritarian fascism. Full. Stop.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
Sorry, but I'm sick and tired of hearing what Biden, Harris or the Democrats did wrong.

If you're getting on a flight and one of the two pilots available is Osama bin Laden, it shouldn't matter if the other is female, black, and (to some people) laughs funny, or dosen't take a clear enough stand on airplane hijackings, or that she joined late and nobody really knows her.

The Dems lost because a majority of Americans are fine with authoritarian fascism. Full. Stop.
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Only if it is White Supremacist fascism, though.
 
a_unique_person said:
Trump was out there selling a message. It was a random inconsistent and impossible one but it was a message. No-one was listening to Biden the free times he did speak, by then it was too late. Many elections are lost because people just spent listening.

One thing I notice consistently from focus groups about Trump is that people think he is a successful businessman.
Biden should have been attacking that every day.
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Great idea, I love hearing how Democrats lost because their whole platform was that Trump is bad.
 
theprestige said:
Here is the problem with that argument...

Whatever mental problems Biden was having at the time, Trump's were worse... His rally speeches were jumbled word-salads that had no meaning, he made significant gaffs, couldn't remember basic facts, etc.

Anyone who voted for Trump because "Biden was showing signs of dementia" is both a massive hypocrite, and also using the issue of Biden's mental capacity to excuse their own racism.
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I think in Biden's case it wasn't so much the "crime", but the cover-up.
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Which of course would be another example of hypocrisy.

Trump worked just as hard to cover up his mental and physical decline. (Remember in his first term when he couldn't walk down a ramp without help? Claimed it was because it was "wet", even though there was no rain in the forecast.)

If they claimed "I voted for Trump because democrats covered up Biden's decline" then they are doing so to excuse their own racism.
 
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Segnosaur said:
Which of course would be another example of hypocrisy.

Trump worked just as hard to cover up his mental and physical decline. (Remember in his first term when he couldn't walk down a ramp without help? Claimed it was because it was "wet", even though there was no rain in the forecast.)

If they claimed "I voted for Trump because democrats covered up Biden's decline" then they are doing so to excuse their own racism.
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I think a lot of people just stayed home. Wasn't turnout significantly lower this time, compared to last?
 
theprestige said:
I think a lot of people just stayed home. Wasn't turnout significantly lower this time, compared to last?
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No.

According to the Census Bureau, 65.3% of US citizens voted in the 2024 election, the third-highest turnout in the past 34 years. Turnout increased by 13.1 percentage points since the most recent mid-term elections in 2022, but decreased by 1.5 percentage points since the 2020 presidential election.
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Safe-Keeper said:
The Dems lost because a majority of Americans are fine with authoritarian fascism. Full. Stop.
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But, but... we keep hearing from the "second amendment" types that they need their guns to protect "mah freedum", and if they don't have access to the latest semi-automatic rifle and all the steel-jacketed ammo they can eat, then the fascists will take over.

Surely the placement of military troops on American streets and the detainment of American citizens on the basis of "racial profiling" will cause them to grab their guns and stop the country's descent into authoritarianism.

Expecting the armed uprising against ICE to happen any... day... now.

Hello?
 
Mojo said:
Trump's whole platform was that he was worse.
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Olmstead said:
Great idea, I love hearing how Democrats lost because their whole platform was that Trump is bad.
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I'll add. People still think that Trump is good for the economy because he was a very good businessman. Neither proposition is true but it is accepted fact for many.
 
a_unique_person said:
I'll add. People still think that Trump is good for the economy because he was a very good businessman. Neither proposition is true but it is accepted fact for many.
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I'm still scratching my head over the proposition that the key to winning the votes of people who reject reality is to tell them about your real successes. They aren't going to listen so it doesn't matter what you tell them.
 
Tero said:
I don't think the middle ground voters ("independents") found much fault with Harris the candidate, but were already negative about anything connected to Biden when he started to fumble. She was "part of it" to them. Voters who do not car much about politics still fo4rm some kind of strange bond with presidential candidates. Not so much with the rest of politics. As the presidencey proceed, many cabinet members become well known public figures. Congress people...who cares?
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And they liked Trumps attempted coup. That certainly was not counted against him.
 
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