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Cont: The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Re-opened Part IV

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Captain_Swoop said:
After the winch failed he could no longer rescue survivors back to Y 64. It had to return for repairs.
He was recovered by Y 74 and continued rescuing survivors when he replaced the Y 74 rescue man.

If he never did any of it, why would the press have heard it and started hailing him as a hero?
If the earlier flight has been so well hidden that there is absolutely no record or trace of it, why tell anyone about anything the rescue man did?
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Obviously decided in retrospect because the list of survivors was already out and Svensson had already briefed the press. Likewise, people who knew Piht had already spotted him on the news. So all that needed to be back-winded. Fast.

Silence ever since as to why those names were removed.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
It would not have been the CIA, it would have been the State Department.
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Other cases before the ECHR cited evidence of the CIA's involvement in the cases of Ahmed Agiza and Muhammad al-Zery, but it is unclear whether a finding of fact has ever issued to that effect.

Countries cooperate with each other all the time.
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The deportation of Agiza and al-Zery occurred a mere three months after the 9/11 terrorist attacks. I venture that other countries were, at the time, more sympathetic to the U.S. intelligence efforts to identify further terrorism plots, and more likely to cooperate at the expense of their own morals.

Let's be clear that I doubt anyone thinks Sweden did the right thing in this case. The question is simply whether it is an example of enforced disappearance as defined in international law.
 
Vixen said:
Christopher Bollyn, for example, claiming the world is being taken over by Zionists, so he is trying to link anyone not convinced by the JAIC as some kind if disgusting extremist who believes the same garbage as himself, although I am sceptical he believes his own garbage.
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And I am sceptical that you believe your own garbage.
 
Vixen said:
I am sceptical he believes his own garbage.
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Apropos, since you are unable to formulate a single scenario that (a) encompasses all the argument you've presented, (b) is more parsimonious than the official narrative, and (c) does not contradict itself egregiously, what evidence can you present that you believe your own garbage?
 
Vixen said:
Obviously decided in retrospect because the list of survivors was already out and Svensson had already briefed the press.
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Why would someone ("Agent Y64" as you called him) sent on a mission to disappear the officers brief the press in the immediate aftermath of what he had just done?

I'm getting dumber and dumber the more of this lunacy I read.
 
Vixen said:
Read the Catalina report.
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That you just found after I linked to concerning why medals were awarded. You weren't even aware they were awarded in 2004 rather than the 50s when the medal itself didn't even exist.

Is that all we are going to get for the next week?
 
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Vixen said:
Christopher Bollyn, for example, claiming the world is being taken over by Zionists, so he is trying to link anyone not convinced by the JAIC as some kind if disgusting extremist who believes the same garbage as himself, although I am sceptical he believes his own garbage.
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Are you claiming then, that Mr Bollyn is working for someone (Sweden maybe?) in order to discredit people who don't believe the JAIC?
 
Vixen said:
Obviously decided in retrospect because the list of survivors was already out and Svensson had already briefed the press. Likewise, people who knew Piht had already spotted him on the news. So all that needed to be back-winded. Fast.

Silence ever since as to why those names were removed.
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Why would he have 'briefed the press' if he was supposed to be on a secret mission to kidnap and 'disappear' the officers from the ship?

Wouldn't briefing the press of his own back be a very foolish thing to do for a special forces operative that would have got him in to serious trouble rather than awarded a medal?

Why would a special forces operative be in a situation where he was able to give freelance briefings to the press?
 
Vixen said:
Read the Catalina report.
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Apologies, but I can't seem to locate a link to the report. From what Captain_Swoop says, I'm assuming that this is the report detailing the rescue missions from the Estonia?

If that is the case, could you please tell me where in the report it details that this was a top secret stealth mission to keep the West safe?
 
MarkCorrigan said:
Are you claiming then, that Mr Bollyn is working for someone (Sweden maybe?) in order to discredit people who don't believe the JAIC?
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Vixen doesn't claim anything. She's merely a reporter.

Everything she posts comes straight from respected professionals in their field. Her posts are cited, sourced and properly referenced. She has assured us on both these points.

So Vixen, what's your citation, source and proper reference from a respected professional in their field that Christopher Bollyn is a disinformation agent meant to discredit people who disagree with the JAIC report?

I must say, this conspiracy is getting more and more impressive, given that its purpose is to coverup Swedish smuggling of old Soviet military electronics on the Estonia. Seems like serious overkill to me, but what do I know?
 
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MarkCorrigan said:
Apologies, but I can't seem to locate a link to the report. From what Captain_Swoop says, I'm assuming that this is the report detailing the rescue missions from the Estonia?

If that is the case, could you please tell me where in the report it details that this was a top secret stealth mission to keep the West safe?
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No, the 'Catalina Affair' relates to a 1950s electronic reconnaissance mission by a Swedish DC3 aircraft that was shot down over the Baltic by the Russians, a Catalina Seaplane sent out to find the crashed aircraft was also shot down by the Russians.

As the DC3 was carrying at the time top secret electronic listening equipment supplied by Britain and Sweden was supposedly a neutral 'unaligned' country the whole thing was hushed up. Russia denied it did anything until the 90s.

Standard Cold War goings on

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalina_affair
 
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Captain_Swoop said:
Why would he have 'briefed the press' if he was supposed to be on a secret mission to kidnap and 'disappear' the officers from the ship?

Wouldn't briefing the press of his own back be a very foolish thing to do for a special forces operative that would have got him in to serious trouble rather than awarded a medal?

Why would a special forces operative be in a situation where he was able to give freelance briefings to the press?
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What do you think the word 'retrospect' means?
 
Vixen said:
He's American, I believe. Not really interested.
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No no, you don't get to do that.

You claimed that disinformation agents are working to discredit various movements and I asked for an example in the real world. You said Mr Bollyn.

So either you don't know he is a disinformation agent, and shouldn't have used him (in which case please provide an example of what you claimed) or he IS but you're trying to avoid backing up your claim.

So come on, is he a disinformation agent or not? If not, or you don't know, then provide a real world example of this happening with evidence that this was or is the case, not just idle speculation on your part.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
How does that answer the question?

Do highly trained secret special operations operatives give impromptu press conferences?
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What it suggests is that the decision to disappear the Estonians was after they had been brought to Huddinge and possibly interrogated. So the survivors lists were hastily downsized and the news clips showing Piht seized by the security services ASAP.

Because Svensson had innocently already gushed to the waiting press, the JAIC report also had to take that into account, considering the press had already hailed him as a great hero and Stenmark telling Reuters Piht had now been questioned in Turku.

You know? A meeting was convened once the senior officers were identified as survivors and to determine what should be done, given the Estonia sinking was to be classified.

Complete silence, ever since.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
No no, you don't get to do that.

You claimed that disinformation agents are working to discredit various movements and I asked for an example in the real world. You said Mr Bollyn.

So either you don't know he is a disinformation agent, and shouldn't have used him (in which case please provide an example of what you claimed) or he IS but you're trying to avoid backing up your claim.

So come on, is he a disinformation agent or not? If not, or you don't know, then provide a real world example of this happening with evidence that this was or is the case, not just idle speculation on your part.
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It wasn't my citation. Ask Reformed Offlian.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
No, the 'Catalina Affair' relates to a 1950s electronic reconnaissance mission by a Swedish DC3 aircraft that was shot down over the Baltic by the Russians, a Catalina Seaplane sent out to find the crashed aircraft was also shot down by the Russians.

As the DC3 was carrying at the time top secret electronic listening equipment supplied by Britain and Sweden was supposedly a neutral 'unaligned' country the whole thing was hushed up. Russia denied it did anything until the 90s.

Standard Cold War goings on

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalina_affair
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Oh that? Ok I do know the incident.

Blimey ok, I assumed that it had something to do with the Estonia disaster.

So, Vixen if you were in fact discussing the actions of the Catalina rescue seaplane then I apologise, I assumed you were referring to the rescue operation and that was wrong of me.
 
Vixen said:
What do you think the word, 'retrospect' means?
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Let me try again, you appear confused and might have responded to the wrong thread.

Why would someone sent on a classified mission to disappear the Estonia’s officers brief the press immediately afterward?
 
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