Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 27

[Bill Williams]

Me too.


The amazing thing is that she is never "knocked down". She has no self-awareness, no sense of how badly she embarrasses herself. Long ago I posted some of her worst errors and had I kept up the list would only be longer now. She keeps on ticking. Everyone makes mistakes. We are all human. But most of us, if we posted something like "Kimo Sabe = do you understand" would recognize our error and be knocked down a peg or 2. Not our guilter.

The one thing that unites the PIP who remain on this thread is the self-awareness that whatever it is which is "the problem" with the way this thread continues (ad nauseam), is that we are part of the problem - when examined psychologically.

If one, then, goes for the "psychological" explanation, there is just as much psychological data to be mined from us, as there is from Vixen or her ilk.

It's why I believe that there is something prior to the psychological in putting it all into perspective, and it is the well-known logic of how discussion threads on the internet work. To focus on the psychological assumes too much that simply cannot be known.

 

[Stacyhs]

Me too.


The amazing thing is that she is never "knocked down". She has no self-awareness, no sense of how badly she embarrasses herself. Long ago I posted some of her worst errors and had I kept up the list would only be longer now. She keeps on ticking. Everyone makes mistakes. We are all human. But most of us, if we posted something like "Kimo Sabe = do you understand" would recognize our error and be knocked down a peg or 2. Not our guilter.

I'm not sure if she doesn't recognize when she is proved wrong or does but just cannot/will not acknowledge it. In the charter plane example, I think she does know that she was wrong but still cannot, or will not, take responsibility for her false claims. Instead, she dances around acknowledging its falsehood by saying "acbytesla has argued his case well enough, so I'll give him the benefit of a doubt". It's the same with the jacket and red band cap. She knows she has zero evidence of the him ever owning either because she can't produce any, but she refuses to acknowledge it.
Her cognitive dissonance must be off the charts.

 

[Bill Williams]

Re: Vixen's mental state.....

Let's at least keep within the mandate of a Skeptics Forum and agree: it's pretty cheeky of those of us actively involved in this debate to make psychological assessments of those on "the other side".

A Skeptics Forum process would at least want that evaluation to come from an uninvolved, neutral point of view.

Right now with Vixen's refusal to acknowledge error - there are many reasons for that. Chief among them is that Vixen enjoys "pulling our chain" and getting a reaction. On the face of it, there's nothing particularly maladaptive about that. If there is, then the maladaptation runs both ways, as all the "Guilty as charged" quips seem to indicate.

That's what I mean about "the medium being the message". The forums by their nature always seem to attract one or two people completely disinterested in the subject-matter; they just enjoy getting a rise out of people, and have a talent for stringing it out beyond reason.

So far, there's nothing to pay a shrink for. But there are dozens of social media papers out there which describe this.

 

[Stacyhs]

Re: Vixen's mental state.....

Let's at least keep within the mandate of a Skeptics Forum and agree: it's pretty cheeky of those of us actively involved in this debate to make psychological assessments of those on "the other side".

A Skeptics Forum process would at least want that evaluation to come from an uninvolved, neutral point of view.

Right now with Vixen's refusal to acknowledge error - there are many reasons for that. Chief among them is that Vixen enjoys "pulling our chain" and getting a reaction. On the face of it, there's nothing particularly maladaptive about that. If there is, then the maladaptation runs both ways, as all the "Guilty as charged" quips seem to indicate.

On a side note, I see the false claims regarding the "chartered plane" still remain. Why am I not surprised?

That's what I mean about "the medium being the message". The forums by their nature always seem to attract one or two people completely disinterested in the subject-matter; they just enjoy getting a rise out of people, and have a talent for stringing it out beyond reason.

So far, there's nothing to pay a shrink for. But there are dozens of social media papers out there which describe this.

Good points, Bill. However, we can at least admit when we are proved wrong by the evidence...not by an interpretation of the evidence, but by evidence that is unequivocal like the charter plane claim. That is the key difference.

On a related note, I see that the "chartered plane" lie remains on TJMK. Why am I not surprised?

 

[acbytesla]

Good points, Bill. However, we can at least admit when we are proved wrong by the evidence...not by an interpretation of the evidence, but by evidence that is unequivocal like the charter plane claim. That is the key difference.

On a related note, I see that the "chartered plane" lie remains on TJMK. Why am I not surprised?

Admitting that we are wrong seems to be instinctively difficult for almost all of us. And being told we are wrong tends to instinctively generate animosity. Still, the ability to admit when we are wrong is important skill. Some people never quite learn it.

I want Vixen to acknowledge she was wrong so we can move on. That we NEVER address this point again. If she doesn't, I'm sure she will be posting this again in a few months.

 

[Bill Williams]

Admitting that we are wrong seems to be instinctively difficult for almost all of us. And being told we are wrong tends to instinctively generate animosity. Still, the ability to admit when we are wrong is important skill. Some people never quite learn it.

I want Vixen to acknowledge she was wrong so we can move on. That we NEVER address this point again. If she doesn't, I'm sure she will be posting this again in a few months.

What's to stop her from admitting error today, then tomorrow simply posting Factoid 2.0?

 

[acbytesla]

What's to stop her from admitting error today, then tomorrow simply posting Factoid 2.0?

Nothing actually. I just think it is less likely when we have her admitting it. But clearly Vixen is NOT going to do it.

 

[Vixen]

Still can't say it can you?

A simple, 'I Vixen was 100 percent wrong and promise not to repeat this falsehood again.' Nothing hard about it.

As I recall you had no scruples about trying to sell a crazy story about phone mast signals not managing to penetrate the walls of Raff's apartment, hence that is why it appeared his phone was switched off. (Cue Abbaddon to provide a picture of his antenna [oo-er,missus.])

So, I know you are not beyond winging it. I'd be wary of any of your 'honestly!' theories.

 

[Vixen]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that they had arranged for the family some low fares because they were regularly flying between Seattle and Rome. And not just on that final flight.

How lovely for the Knoxen and Mellas', swanning back and forth across the pond.

Yet the Kercher family had barely any support at all.

 

[Vixen]

If that was a round trip ticket, I'd do it.

I was going to, but then I looked at the price of accommodation. I couldn't believe how ridiculously expensive it was.

I've always wanted to follow the Jack London trail into the wilds or visit Jimi Hendrix environs, so maybe one day.

 

[Vixen]

I found this:







https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/276351/Why-did-BA-give-Amanda-Knox-VIP-treatment

Granted, this is from the Express but it does agree with what Amanda wrote in her book regarding an airline employee arranging the trip home for them.
As the BA rep said, it was all perfectly within the rules of the airline.

Francesco Maresca complained that the Kerchers were not getting the same treatment. Rather than moan about the BA employee using initiative to help the Knox/Mellas families, perhaps he should have asked why no one came forward to do the same for the Kerchers as they should have. Where were the PGP supporters? Where were TJMK and PMF members who claimed their concern was "all for Meredith"?

I think that is absolutely disgusting.

Why didn't this BA character offer similar free flights for the Kerchers?

What a swine.

 

[Vixen]

Should be noted that Vixen HAS STILL NOT ADMITTED SHE WAS WRONG. Only 'fair enough' and that 'acbytesla argued his case well enough, so I'll give him the benefit of a doubt'. And then she disappeared.

Anything to avoid taking responsibility.

Once bitten, twice shy. You can argue BS with a straight face. However, I'll buy it on this occasion.

 

[Vixen]

There's no way the police and Mignini weren't aware of what they were doing with Knox during the interrogation. They knew it was illegal and unusable from the very first question. What's so remarkable about that is the fact that they did it anyway which shows just how certain they were that she was guilty and had useful information for them even if they couldn't use it at trial.

They had a body surrounded exclusively by male prints with male DNA from the rapekit, yet they were convinced beyond any doubt this ditsy American girl was somehow the ringleader. I'm still baffled to this day what made them so certain. I mean not even Toto was giving them the heroin fogged scoop at this point. But they didn't care what backlash they would later face from the interrogation because they knew the rapekit results would be matched to someone connected to Knox and that would solve the case.

They gambled and took a chance with the rushed full press illegal interrogation rather than waiting on the evidence, and then when they lost and had three innocent people sitting in jail had the nerve to try to dodge their just deserts with the bs calunnia charge. And they would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for those pesky kids and their ECHR

This must be one of the parallel universes Prof Hawking was referring to.

 

[Vixen]

It's still psychological. There is no question that Vixen is the center of this thread. And it definitely is narcissism of a kind that drives this. This is Donald Trump in a different forum.

If we ignored Vixen, she would go away. But then, what would we all do? You Bill and Stacy need Vixen as much as she needs to be the center of attention. You know this to be true.

Aw, you silver-tongued charmer.

 

[Vixen]

I see what happens to the thread when she stops posting. I keep checking back for ECHR updates, but I couldn't resist when I read about the charter. ( See? I'm weak willed.)

The truth is, I just can't argue this case any longer. I can't go over non cleanup clean ups, DNA, footprints, interrogations any more. There was a purpose for this argument at one time. But convincing Vixen is obviously an impossible task. She doesn't matter.

Ah. I take it back.

 

[Vixen]

I did just look at TJMK. Some increasingly bizarre comments. I particularly like the new crime that Knox is guilty of "Felony Demonization". She is now an "Arch-demonizer". So we are harking back to the Halloween theme I suspect. It just reinforces the idea of a witch hunt.

What seems to happen is a type of mission creep. The only core fact is 'the guilt of Knox' all else is malleable in support of this fact. One can just assume that if Knox was guilty then she might have done this or that, then this morphs into a fact. Then this becomes evidence of guilt in a self perpetuating circular argument that is independent of reality.

So we get the argument that after being imprisoned abroad for three years Knox flying straight home was somehow abnormal, and that she should have remained in Italy to help the Police with their investigation. (Although it does appear that they had three years of Knox in prison during which they could have sought her assistance.) I would suggest that most people guilty or innocent when released from prison go home.

It's lucky they weren't tried in Texas. They would have been despatched by the state by now.

 

[Vixen]

Admitting that we are wrong seems to be instinctively difficult for almost all of us. And being told we are wrong tends to instinctively generate animosity. Still, the ability to admit when we are wrong is important skill. Some people never quite learn it.

I want Vixen to acknowledge she was wrong so we can move on. That we NEVER address this point again. If she doesn't, I'm sure she will be posting this again in a few months.

I have no problem admitting I'm wrong. I am first to put my hand up, and it's immediate. It is a mystery to me why anyone would refuse to admit an error, apart from politicians, I suppose.

 

[LondonJohn]

I have no problem admitting I'm wrong. I am first to put my hand up, and it's immediate.

As I believe the well-worn phrase goes:

Wow. Just wow.

 

[acbytesla]

How lovely for the Knoxen and Mellas', swanning back and forth across the pond.

Yet the Kercher family had barely any support at all.

They didn't have a daughter that was in Italy during that time. They really had little need.

 

[acbytesla]

Once bitten, twice shy. You can argue BS with a straight face. However, I'll buy it on this occasion.

Still not admitting you were wrong. Figures.