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Wow, UK has lost freedom of speech

Planigale said:
There is also a difference between freedom of speech and freedom of publication. The issue is what was written and published, whilst the meme is reproduced, the associated comments and responses were not. if this was published with the comment that violence was wrong, peoples rights should be respected, I wouldn't expect the police to call. If it was supported by a comment that if they don't go willingly they should be forced out (as has happened to people in the US who have been detained and deported for expressing support for Palestine), driven into the sea, then I would think this was an unacceptable call to violence. A warning from the police that you are at risk of breaking the law might be reasonable.

What would be the response if the comment was that all Jews who protested against Hamas and nurses wearing Palestinian flag badges should '◊◊◊◊ off back to Israel'?

Would people be claiming this was anti-semitic? Would people be commenting on anti-Semitic violence and that this is an incitement to anti-Semitism?

Would his claim that Jews aren't a race be accepted as a defence?
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My response would be exactly the same.
 
Darat said:
British policing has many, many faults and needs massive reform however PACE (Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984) sets out a national framework for Wales and England in regard to policing and has many good aspects, for example how interviews and arrests must proceed.

The police in this instance seem to have been a bunch of pillocks, yes they should investigate complaints but we have had enough case law now to establish that what was posted (if that is all that was posted) was not anything someone could be prosecuted for posting. We also don't know what triggered the police action, the initial complaint could have been that he was posting something like actual threats of violence. So I suppose it could be argued that they didn't know whether that was the extent of his posting and if they called on him and he wouldn't cooperate they may have had to arrest him to be able to conduct a more in-depth investigation. But that's weak sauce if you ask me.

ETA: The police in the UK do not decide who to prosecute. Those decisions are made by the crown prosecution service in Wales and England, we don't have the politicisation of the prosecutor position unlike many places in the USA, over here it's a "civil service" position.
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I've been wondering if maybe this man hadn't been cooperating with a voluntary investigation, and police had little other option than to arrest. It's hard to say without hearing the police version. It happened in another thread very recently that the claimant was very dishonest about how she edited a video regarding police actions, and it's not out of the question here.

The offensive tweet in question has not been confirmed by police or even North as the relevant matter; it was claimed to be so by North's father. Pete North is also a far right activist, if I am reading this correctly? Police may have multiple issues with this guy, and (like the woman who said her daughter was being arrested for viewing a social media post), the issue with North might be far more consequential than the Hamas meme?

Eta: full context of the video of police beginning the arrest (North recording on phone). Police professional and apologetic, had to search his person for weapons and said they would do so inside, rather than make a spectacle in front of neighbors. Police ask if he had been arrested before, and North says he is a 'frequent flier'. Couple four letter words from North in video, so maybe NSFW:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/1nr2tcp/guy_in_the_uk_gets_a_visit_from_police_for_a_tweet
 
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Carrot Flower King said:
Tea cup? Meet storm!


Seems to me that the ones whose feelings were hurt are the neo-fascist snowflakes who went whining to the Torygraph.

I'll stick up for their right to free speech when they show any sign of sticking up for any rights of anyon else.
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As an addendum to the above and to further illustrate what right wing types think of any rights for others:

www.theguardian.com

Tory candidates must pledge support for leaving ECHR or stand down, says Jenrick

Shadow justice secretary demands prospective MPs sign contract saying they stand for ‘Conservative values’ UK politics – latest updates
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Jenrick isn't just talking about leaving the ECHR, but also:
"Jenrick told the pro-Brexit audience that the UK must leave the ECHR and repeal “a whole series of other laws”.

“It means repealing a whole series of other laws which may have had noble intent whether it’s the Equalities Act, the Human Rights Act, the Climate Change Act, but which have had the effect of undermining the sovereignty of parliament,” he said."

The EA and the HRA show what he and his like think of rights for others, especially those more vulnerable than them
 
Thermal said:
I've been wondering if maybe this man hadn't been cooperating with a voluntary investigation, and police had little other option than to arrest. It's hard to say without hearing the police version. It happened in another thread very recently that the claimant was very dishonest about how she edited a video regarding police actions, and it's not out of the question here.

The offensive tweet in question has not been confirmed by police or even North as the relevant matter; it was claimed to be so by North's father. Pete North is also a far right activist, if I am reading this correctly? Police may have multiple issues with this guy, and (like the woman who said her daughter was being arrested for viewing a social media post), the issue with North might be far more consequential than the Hamas meme?

Eta: full context of the video of police beginning the arrest (North recording on phone). Police professional and apologetic, had to search his person for weapons and said they would do so inside, rather than make a spectacle in front of neighbors. Police ask if he had been arrested before, and North says he is a 'frequent flier'. Couple four letter words from North in video, so maybe NSFW:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/1nr2tcp/guy_in_the_uk_gets_a_visit_from_police_for_a_tweet
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Zooterkin's post, #15, makes it clearer that North is a known far right "thinker".
 
Thermal said:
I saw that, but wasn't familiar with the source.
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Bit of background:

searchlightmagazine.com

This is Searchlight's mission | Searchlight

Searchlight investigates and opposes fascism, antisemitism and racism in Britain and abroad. Searchlight was founded in 1964 as an occasional publication an ...
searchlightmagazine.com searchlightmagazine.com

Tl;dr They know a neo-fascist when they see one and we've had quite a few of those over the years.
 
catsmate said:
That is utter rubbish.
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No, it's true. We are not taking Trump's attack on the 1st Amendment lying down.

He tried to kick Kimmel off the air, and he's back.

He wants to make it illegal to record and post videos of ICE, we wont allow it.

He wants to make it illegal to be too critical of him on tv, we won't allow such censorship.

We will fight.
 
Carrot Flower King said:
Tea cup? Meet storm!


Seems to me that the ones whose feelings were hurt are the neo-fascist snowflakes who went whining to the Torygraph.

I'll stick up for their right to free speech when they show any sign of sticking up for any rights of anyon else.
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The ACLU defended the right of Nazis to march in a Jewish neighborhood in Illinois.

It was the right thing to do.
 
Hercules56 said:
The ACLU defended the right of Nazis to march in a Jewish neighborhood in Illinois.

It was the right thing to do.
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Very noble of them; not sure I agree, but that is filtered through several decades of history.

However, our right wing eejits are not about to do anything similar - as in standing up for anyone else's rights, just to be clear.
 
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Carrot Flower King said:
Bit of background:

searchlightmagazine.com

This is Searchlight's mission | Searchlight

Searchlight investigates and opposes fascism, antisemitism and racism in Britain and abroad. Searchlight was founded in 1964 as an occasional publication an ...
searchlightmagazine.com searchlightmagazine.com

Tl;dr They know a neo-fascist when they see one and we've had quite a few of those over the years.
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Listen to the sound of marching feet
And the voices of the ghosts of Cable Street
Fists and stones and batons and the gun
With courage we shall beat those blackshirts down
 
Oh, a bit more background on Paul North...

searchlightmagazine.com

Fascists offer Homeland to 'respectable' far right activists | Searchlight

Kenny Smith (far right) walking the dog Britain’s far right is approaching conference season. So we can expect toxic politics of hate to be spewed in all di ...
searchlightmagazine.com searchlightmagazine.com

Tl;dr He definitely has history as a far right (self-described) stirrer of faecal matter (my description), including being done for libelling AC Grayling, which shows you what his idea of "free speech" is.
 
catsmate said:
Listen to the sound of marching feet
And the voices of the ghosts of Cable Street
Fists and stones and batons and the gun
With courage we shall beat those blackshirts down
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Though, tbh, my great-uncle Tommy preferred a cargo hook and the classic pickaxe handle that day.
 
Carrot Flower King said:
Very noble of them; not sure I agree, but that is filtered through several decades of history.

However, our right wing eejits are not about to do anything similar - as in standing up for anyone else's rights, just to be clear.
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The behavior of the other guy is irrelevant.

If one of us loses freedom of speech, you and I are next. Neimoller taught us that.
 
Hercules56 said:
The behavior of the other guy is irrelevant.

If one of us loses freedom of speech, you and I are next. Neimoller taught us that.
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That horse has left the barn. There is nowhere on the planet where freedom of speech is absolute. And actually there never was regardless of the rhetoric emanating from the USA. And the USA, among other countries, is busily redefining the limits of that freedom. It will eventually be recognized that true democracies have more reasonable limits than other forms of government, including republics that invest way too much power in their heads of state.
 
Hercules56 said:
No, it's true. We are not taking Trump's attack on the 1st Amendment lying down.

He tried to kick Kimmel off the air, and he's back.

He wants to make it illegal to record and post videos of ICE, we wont allow it.

He wants to make it illegal to be too critical of him on tv, we won't allow such censorship.

We will fight.
Click to expand...
When? Because they've already started.
 
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Steve said:
That horse has left the barn. There is nowhere on the planet where freedom of speech is absolute. And actually there never was regardless of the rhetoric emanating from the USA. And the USA, among other countries, is busily redefining the limits of that freedom. It will eventually be recognized that true democracies have more reasonable limits than other forms of government, including republics that invest way too much power in their heads of state.
Click to expand...
How? When was the last time anyone was arrested in the US for speech?
 
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