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What exactly does NIST say about collpase times

JSanderO said:
Seems to me that speed/time/interval of collapse has to be related to the process of undoing.

It's not really thread creep to discuss the mechanics of the collapse. The fall of the EPH was not included in the FF period.

So what was fall at FF and why? How much of the insides was already gone? And what undermined the last bit where we see the curtain wall and whatever may have been attached to it go down?
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This may never be known. The possibilities once the process started are endless.

The process started as soon as the first plane hit. I know you prefer a starting point well under where NIST considers likely.

I have to wonder why you feel the need to include this into a thread that has to do with progression not initiation?
 
DGM said:
This may never be known. The possibilities once the process started are endless.

The process started as soon as the first plane hit. I know you prefer a starting point well under where NIST considers likely.

I have to wonder why you feel the need to include this into a thread that has to do with progression not initiation?
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When do you start the clock for a collapse? When the first building movement is observed? Or are you going to do the AE911T thing and start the clock when the roof line begins to move?

But why start it there? Why ignore all the other parts of the collapse that show lesser but still significant movement? Aren't they related?
 
JSanderO said:
When do you start the clock for a collapse? When the first building movement is observed? Or are you going to do the AE911T thing and start the clock when the roof line begins to move?

But why start it there? Why ignore all the other parts of the collapse that show lesser but still significant movement? Aren't they related?
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For building 7, I would start the clock around the time the fires started, around 10AM if I recall.

The first sign of (global) collapse is hard to pin point. I would say slightly before the first penthouse was seen to move. Likely 20 seconds or more before any building movement was observed. Looking closely, this was around the time random windows started breaking all the way up the building.
 
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DGM said:
For building 7, I would start the clock around the time the fires started, around 10AM if I recall.

The first sign of (global) collapse is hard to pin point. I would say slightly before the first penthouse was seen to move. Likely 20 seconds or more before any building movement was observed. Looking closely, this was around the time random windows started breaking all the way up the building.
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OK... would the window breaking be the sign in your opinion of the frame distorting enough to break the glass? If so what this a sort of elongation of steel from heat... or leverage from falling beam ends cause the frame distortion?
 
JSanderO said:
OK... would the window breaking be the sign in your opinion of the frame distorting enough to break the glass? If so what this a sort of elongation of steel from heat... or leverage from falling beam ends cause the frame distortion?
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When seen in the progression it likely was from distortion of the wall due to internal floor failure.
 
DGM said:
When seen in the progression it likely was from distortion of the wall due to internal floor failure.
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So you are saying that the perimeter moment frame distorted in some locations caused by floor failure (dropping?) which broke windows?
 
JSanderO said:
When do you start the clock for a collapse? When the first building movement is observed? Or are you going to do the AE911T thing and start the clock when the roof line begins to move?

But why start it there? Why ignore all the other parts of the collapse that show lesser but still significant movement? Aren't they related?
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I think we all agree the clock on collapse does not start at the time the facade begins moving. That is itself several seconds before the EPH fell inwards which indicates that internal structure ahd already been destroyed. Collapse start would be the time of EPH movement PLUS the time it would take for first internalfailure to propigate to the roof level.

Somewhere in these threads there is a video that shows a structure wide ripple well before the EPH falls. That indicates a major movement in the building.
 
jaydeehess said:
I think we all agree the clock on collapse does not start at the time the facade begins moving. That is itself several seconds before the EPH fell inwards which indicates that internal structure ahd already been destroyed. Collapse start would be the time of EPH movement PLUS the time it would take for first internalfailure to propigate to the roof level.

Somewhere in these threads there is a video that shows a structure wide ripple well before the EPH falls. That indicates a major movement in the building.
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That sounds correct. We agree!
 
Pinocchio Sunder and the great LaLa.

No. You 'start the clock' on Salomon 7 WorldTrade BEFORE either tower was demolished - when the eyewitness Barry Jennings testified to massive explosions in the stairwell almost killing him and Hess, trapping them in the building for two hours. Within which time he reported surviving both towers coming down AND many explosions at staggered intervals throughout the building.
Don't think for a moment any properly constituted investigation or even half decent conversation won't include ALL the evidence, and this evidence in particular.
Incidentally, the stairwell explosion location was below level 6 in the column 79-80-81 area.
 
remo said:
No. You 'start the clock' on Salomon 7 WorldTrade BEFORE either tower was demolished - when the eyewitness Barry Jennings testified to massive explosions in the stairwell almost killing him and Hess, trapping them in the building for two hours. Within which time he reported surviving both towers coming down AND many explosions at staggered intervals throughout the building.
Don't think for a moment any properly constituted investigation or even half decent conversation won't include ALL the evidence, and this evidence in particular.
Incidentally, the stairwell explosion location was below level 6 in the column 79-80-81 area.
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This is getting soooooo tiresome.

Explosions DO NOT EQUAL explosives
Explosions DO NOT EQUAL explosives
Explosions DO NOT EQUAL explosives
Explosions DO NOT EQUAL explosives
Explosions DO NOT EQUAL explosives

Get it?????????
 
Mantra of the failed imagination.

I guess you shut your eyes and shout that over and over and over so's not to hear the questions the actual evidence presents? Whatever. The position still stands. Explosions within the structure began BEFORE either tower came down by un-refuted eyewitness testimony. WHATEVER caused the explosion underneath level 6 as they ran down the stairs for their lives, did enormous structural damage to core/stairwell steel work in the same area later developing the kink in FreeFall.
Explosive damage enough to trap two eyewitnesses in the building for two hours.
That is when you can start your clock.
 
LSSBB said:
This is getting soooooo tiresome.

Explosions DO NOT EQUAL explosives
Explosions DO NOT EQUAL explosives
Explosions DO NOT EQUAL explosives
Explosions DO NOT EQUAL explosives
Explosions DO NOT EQUAL explosives

Get it?????????
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And no corroboration of the "massive"(as remo puts it) explosion in 7wtc by the FFs. Jennings and Hess managed to hail firefighters when they got to a window. Yet we are to believe that this structure, blown out windows and all, had a massive explosion that no one outside could hear even though there were those close enough to hear J & H call for help.

Yes, remo, all evidence should be put forth.
 
remo said:
I guess you shut your eyes and shout that over and over and over so's not to hear the questions the actual evidence presents? Whatever. The position still stands. Explosions within the structure began BEFORE either tower came down by un-refuted eyewitness testimony. WHATEVER caused the explosion underneath level 6 as they ran down the stairs for their lives, did enormous structural damage to core/stairwell steel work in the same area later developing the kink in FreeFall.
Explosive damage enough to trap two eyewitnesses in the building for two hours.
That is when you can start your clock.
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That "explosion" was the north tower collapsing into 7 WTC. (smh)
 
remo said:
No. You 'start the clock' on Salomon 7 WorldTrade BEFORE either tower was demolished - when the eyewitness Barry Jennings testified to massive explosions in the stairwell almost killing him and Hess, trapping them in the building for two hours. Within which time he reported surviving both towers coming down AND many explosions at staggered intervals throughout the building.
Don't think for a moment any properly constituted investigation or even half decent conversation won't include ALL the evidence, and this evidence in particular.
Incidentally, the stairwell explosion location was below level 6 in the column 79-80-81 area.
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Looks like engineers in NIST beat 911 truth. 12 years and all 911 truth has is the same evidence Bigfoot believers have; kind of like zero (a math term, and 911 truth does not do math). oops

NIST never said much about collapse time, save some initial stuff about the initial collapse front - what does 911 truth say? Wait, 911 truth does not use math, they make up stuff, and fail for 12 years, calling people names.

WTC took over 18 seconds to fall, 911 truth can't do the math to figure this out. Why not? Why has 911 truth failed for 12 years to make progress?

once again simile outsmarts 911 truth
 
remo said:
No. You 'start the clock' on Salomon 7 WorldTrade BEFORE either tower was demolished - when the eyewitness Barry Jennings testified to massive explosions in the stairwell almost killing him and Hess, trapping them in the building for two hours. Within which time he reported surviving both towers coming down AND many explosions at staggered intervals throughout the building.
Don't think for a moment any properly constituted investigation or even half decent conversation won't include ALL the evidence, and this evidence in particular.
Incidentally, the stairwell explosion location was below level 6 in the column 79-80-81 area.
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Why do Truthers seem to have trouble with the normal concepts of language and description? "Explosion" =/= "explosive."
 
Robrob said:
Why do Truthers seem to have trouble with the normal concepts of language and description? "Explosion" =/= "explosive."
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Yes, they have a gigantic problem with semantics (among hundreds of other things).
What's truly mind-boggling is how the troofers can't wrap their mind around how LOUD controlled demolitions actually are.
Even a single blast of RDX to bring down the critical column in 7WTC would create sound levels of ~130 db a half mile away (like standing next to a jet plane engine).
The "explosions" witnesses heard can be easily attributed to acre-wide slabs of concrete slamming together and electrical equipment exploding, among other much more logical things.
Hell, some witnesses even reported that falling BODIES sounded like "explosions".
They hear witnesses talking about these explosions, and they immediately attribute them to explosives because it goes along with their CT beliefs.
 
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