What actually do JREF religious believers believe?

[Darth Rotor]

The Volkskeuken in Antwerp provide cheap food for the unemployed and disadvantaged. I help out there now and again. It is not a religious organization. Do you really think that the only people who help the poor are Christians?

I didn't say that. Why are you trying to imply that this is what I said? Nowhere in my post do I claim that the only people who help people are Christians.

Very dishonest of you, dafydd.

 

[dafydd]

I didn't say that. Why are you trying to imply that this is what I said? Nowhere in my post do I claim that the only people who help people are Christians.

Very dishonest of you, dafydd.

I thought that you were implying it

''People who assert that religion is inherently hurtful need to tell the folks at the food ministry where I volunteer, and whom I support with donations, how hurtful it is when Christians feed the hungry.''

Sorry if I got the wrong impression.

 

[bruto]

The Volkskeuken in Antwerp provide cheap food for the unemployed and disadvantaged. I help out there now and again. It is not a religious organization. Do you really think that the only people who help the poor are Christians?

Come on, that's not what he said. He said lots of Christians help the poor. Sure, they might be something else and do something else, but that does not mean they don't do what they do.

 

[punshhh]

Yaaaaaawn. Which one of the gods did you ask? Mankind has invented a lot of them over the years.

I am yawning at your repetition of the same old debunking questions you've asked me and others numerous times. I was happy to answer them the first couple of times. But when it becomes evident that your not going to take part in any real debate and just dismiss the answers, with the same old cliches, that don't address the issues. I think what's the point in banging my head against a brick wall. After a while I stop banging and move on.

 

[punshhh]

So, given that you don't believe now, what do you now think it was that you actually experienced back then?

Thanks zooterkin for showing an interest.

I should explain as my use of the word belief can be miss-leading.

I have rooted out belief from my reasoning as it serves no purpose. I prefer opinion or position. This is more accurate as I hold numerous opinions and positions on issues, but no beliefs on issues. Also these opinions and positions change and are revised from time to time. Beliefs are in some way unchangeable and can be seen as irrational.

I find when it comes to a religious life, it is the word faith which is important rather than the word belief.

To answer your question, it is my opinion that what happened to me when I asked that question is similar to what a "believer" would take to have happened.

 

[punshhh]

Well, you know the old saying, "when you want to confirmation bias, you confirm biasedly."

Every opinion involves bias. Are you not biased?

 

[punshhh]

Rose, it seems to me that DJ made a generalization when the evidence shows that it can be harmful to some folks some of the time.

The entire Sylvia Browne exposure effort (see Mr Lancaster and others) is rooted in the position that some of the folks who go to Browne for reassurances are at least financially hurt by believing in her assertions of communication with those "in the great beyond."

Mind you, folks take advantage of those who are hurting in a great many ways. (Ever been to a funeral home when a loved on has passed away?) What Sylvia does or did is just one of them, one that takes on a particular form and asserts the use of the supernatural to do so.

People who assert that religion is inherently hurtful need to tell the folks at the food ministry where I volunteer, and whom I support with donations, how hurtful it is when Christians feed the hungry.

You people know who you are, and having a conversation with you when you see something so narrowly is an exercise in futility. This post was probably a waste of time but it's a commercial break during the ESPN recap of the NFL games, so I thought I'd offer two cents.

Happy New Year to you all.

Thanks for your post and bringing the subject around to the idea of service. The central message conveyed in religions is (or at least was) that to show compassion and generosity to ones fellow people is beneficial.

The gift of good faith and service is one of the most constructive things a person can do in their life.

 

[RoseMontague]

Rose, it seems to me that DJ made a generalization when the evidence shows that it can be harmful to some folks some of the time.

The entire Sylvia Browne exposure effort (see Mr Lancaster and others) is rooted in the position that some of the folks who go to Browne for reassurances are at least financially hurt by believing in her assertions of communication with those "in the great beyond."

Mind you, folks take advantage of those who are hurting in a great many ways. (Ever been to a funeral home when a loved on has passed away?) What Sylvia does or did is just one of them, one that takes on a particular form and asserts the use of the supernatural to do so.

People who assert that religion is inherently hurtful need to tell the folks at the food ministry where I volunteer, and whom I support with donations, how hurtful it is when Christians feed the hungry.

You people know who you are, and having a conversation with you when you see something so narrowly is an exercise in futility. This post was probably a waste of time but it's a commercial break during the ESPN recap of the NFL games, so I thought I'd offer two cents.

Happy New Year to you all.

Thanks for your post and bringing the subject around to the idea of service. The central message conveyed in religions is (or at least was) that to show compassion and generosity to ones fellow people is beneficial.

The gift of good faith and service is one of the most constructive things a person can do in their life.

Yep, yep. I appreciate both comments. Making a blanket generalization is probably not the best way to approach an issue from a skeptical standpoint.

Just my opinion.

 

[dafydd]

I am yawning at your repetition of the same old debunking questions you've asked me and others numerous times. I was happy to answer them the first couple of times. But when it becomes evident that your not going to take part in any real debate and just dismiss the answers, with the same old cliches, that don't address the issues. I think what's the point in banging my head against a brick wall. After a while I stop banging and move on.

I was only inquiring after which god you were referring to.

 

[dafydd]

Thanks for your post and bringing the subject around to the idea of service. The central message conveyed in religions is (or at least was) that to show compassion and generosity to ones fellow people is beneficial.

The gift of good faith and service is one of the most constructive things a person can do in their life.

Those Crusaders really were compassionate. Oliver Cromwell too.

 

[dafydd]

Come on, that's not what he said. .

I have realized that. My mistake.

 

[laca]

People who assert that religion is inherently hurtful need to tell the folks at the food ministry where I volunteer, and whom I support with donations, how hurtful it is when Christians feed the hungry.

Are they doing it because they are Christian? If not, then it's a bit misleading to say that "Christians are feeding the hungry", you might as well say "people in green are feeding the hungry" etc. If they are doing it because they are Christian, then that's just sad.

 

[tsig]

Thanks for your post and bringing the subject around to the idea of service. The central message conveyed in religions is (or at least was) that to show compassion and generosity to ones fellow people is beneficial.

The gift of good faith and service is one of the most constructive things a person can do in their life.

When I was Catholic the central message was get to heaven, if feeding poor people gave you some brownie points then you'd feed the poor.

 

[dafydd]

Although now I don't believe, I gave up beliefs years ago. T.

No you didn't. You believe that mysticism and the occult exist.

 

[Frishman]

Religion comes from the words re (again) ligere (to bind, as in a ligament). Religion should remind us, and bind us back to the Source of all creation, which physics calls the Unified Field.

Nothing must be taken on "faith" or is "unexplainable" - things are only unexplained with the current level of science. Faith is a cop out. How can we "just believe it" without proof? Critical thinkers demand proof. We should not have to turn off our critical thinking ability to be "saved". Better that we keep our CTA. That's why we are here.

Jesus was a wise and enlightened man. Yet we are all sons of God - all parts of the cosmic Self which is at the foundation of all our thinking capacity. When we hear the music from a radio, the radio is not making the music, only transmitting it from an unseen field of intelligence. Likewise our brains are receivers and transmitters of a subset of thoughts of the Cosmic Mind.

Some things in the Bible are ridiculous. God making the Earth first, then the Sun later, then the innumerable stars after that. Adam being made from dirt with a "poof". Eve coming from his rib. There is a series of YouTube videos about "Unbelievably Messed-Up Bible Stories" that everyone, especially children, should watch.

St. Joseph is getting a raw deal from history. He and Mary, about 14 years old, were not celebate. There is a high probability that Joseph is the father of Jesus, and that Mary was no virgin. Not that it matters. The "immaculate conception" is a cover up. Mary was a normal healthy female, and that is why (according to stories about him) Jesus looks so much like other men in his vicinity, including Joseph. Jesus was a good, and wise man, just not "the only son of God". We are all sons and daughters of the Unified Field.

 

[tsig]

Religion comes from the words re (again) ligere (to bind, as in a ligament). Religion should remind us, and bind us back to the Source of all creation, which physics calls the Unified Field. Nothing must be taken on "faith" or is "unexplainable" - things are only unexplained with the current level of science. Faith is a cop out. How can we "just believe it" without proof? Critical thinkers demand proof. We should not have to turn off our critical thinking ability to be "saved". Better that we keep our CTA. That's why we are here.

Jesus was a wise and enlightened man. Yet we are all sons of God - all parts of the cosmic Self which is at the foundation of all our thinking capacity. When we hear the music from a radio, the radio is not making the music, only transmitting it from an unseen field of intelligence. Likewise our brains are receivers and transmitters of a subset of thoughts of the Cosmic Mind.

Some things in the Bible are ridiculous. God making the Earth first, then the Sun later, then the innumerable stars after that. Adam being made from dirt with a "poof". Eve coming from his rib. There is a series of YouTube videos about "Unbelievably Messed-Up Bible Stories" that everyone, especially children, should watch.

St. Joseph is getting a raw deal from history. He and Mary, about 14 years old, were not celebate. There is a high probability that Joseph is the father of Jesus, and that Mary was no virgin. Not that it matters. The "immaculate conception" is a cover up. Mary was a normal healthy female, and that is why (according to stories about him) Jesus looks so much like other men in his vicinity, including Joseph. Jesus was a good, and wise man, just not "the only son of God". We are all sons and daughters of the Unified Field.

Build it and they will come.

 

[Recovering Agnostic]

St. Joseph is getting a raw deal from history. He and Mary, about 14 years old, were not celebate. There is a high probability that Joseph is the father of Jesus, and that Mary was no virgin. Not that it matters. The "immaculate conception" is a cover up. Mary was a normal healthy female, and that is why (according to stories about him) Jesus looks so much like other men in his vicinity, including Joseph. Jesus was a good, and wise man, just not "the only son of God". We are all sons and daughters of the Unified Field.

The immaculate conception may be a cover up, but I don't think it means what you think it means.

I'm not too sure about your explanation of the etymology of religion, either.

 

[bruto]

One of the funny things is that my wife, who was raised Catholic and went through the whole catechism and all that stuff also had no idea of the difference between the immaculate conception and the virgin birth, among other dogmas, and almost no knowledge of the Bible. An atheist raised as a liberal Christian, I know a whole lot more about this stuff than she does. She long ago figured out what a crock the Church is, but occasionally when I point out what they're really trying to assert, she's amazed at the silliness of it all.