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What actually do JREF religious believers believe?

tsig said:
Mysticism is a dead end. Once you agree there's some unknown essence underlining existence how can you investigate it in an objective manner? Having throw out the tools of science the mystics are left with nothing but the way of the woo. Mountains of evidence that the world actually works the way science says it does are thrown out to door while anecdotal anthills are built to prove we really know nothing. Then the same ones who say we know nothing claim to know everything.
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I won't delve into the misconceptions in this stereotype. Looks as though someone's been giving mysticism a bad press.

You're not confusing the activity of "gurus" with mystics are you?
 
punshhh said:
I won't delve into the misconceptions in this stereotype. Looks as though someone's been giving mysticism a bad press.

You're not confusing the activity of "gurus" with mystics are you?
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What does mysticism do? Do you think that your fellow mystic Limbo was giving mysticism a good press when he told us that he danced on the dark side of the Moon in his astral body and had also walked inside a mountain with a goddess? Mystics don't need anyone to give them a bad press, they do a great job themselves. Once again, what does mysticism do, apart from make up tosh?
 
punshhh said:
I won't delve into the misconceptions in this stereotype. Looks as though someone's been giving mysticism a bad press.

You're not confusing the activity of "gurus" with mystics are you?
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Why not? If you want to call them stereotypes you should really justify it otherwise we might think you're just typing empty words.

BTW: That post is a result of my own observations on this and other forums so if I have misconceptions it is in part because of your own behavior so you should take this opportunity to set me straight.
 
dafydd said:
What does mysticism do? Do you think that your fellow mystic Limbo was giving mysticism a good press when he told us that he danced on the dark side of the Moon in his astral body and had also walked inside a mountain with a goddess? Mystics don't need anyone to give them a bad press, they do a great job themselves. Once again, what does mysticism do, apart from make up tosh?
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The mystics themselves can't agree on any specifics beyond the usual cant "Materialists are arrogant and really know nothing, they're cold, unimaginative, dull and just really bad company".
 
tsig said:
Why not? If you want to call them stereotypes you should really justify it otherwise we might think you're just typing empty words.

BTW: That post is a result of my own observations on this and other forums so if I have misconceptions it is in part because of your own behavior so you should take this opportunity to set me straight.
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An explanation of why your post was stereotyped would be welcome. Are there any non-mystical gurus? Which exams do you have to pass in order to become a guru, or do you just have to fool the gullible?
 
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tsig said:
The mystics themselves can't agree on any specifics beyond the usual cant "Materialists are arrogant and really know nothing, they're cold, unimaginative, dull and just really bad company".
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I note that punshhh is avoiding telling us if he believes that Limbo has walked inside a mountain with a goddess.
 
punshhh said:
I won't delve into the misconceptions in this stereotype. Looks as though someone's been giving mysticism a bad press.

You're not confusing the activity of "gurus" with mystics are you?
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Bad press does not necessarily mean untrue press.
Gurus are a subset of mystics
 
tsig said:
Why not? If you want to call them stereotypes you should really justify it otherwise we might think you're just typing empty words.

BTW: That post is a result of my own observations on this and other forums so if I have misconceptions it is in part because of your own behavior so you should take this opportunity to set me straight.
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Yes I can see how you may have come to this conclusion. There are a lot of folk who go around claiming to be mystics, gurus or spiritual teachers etc and yet to a greater or lesser degree they are just confirming the stereotype you outline. This is just normal human behavior.

As the ideas involved are essentially philosophical outlooks, one should take from them what one finds useful and discard the rest.

The exploitation of the easily led is an unfortunate thing and occurs in all walks of life.
 
punshhh said:
Yes I can see how you may have come to this conclusion. There are a lot of folk who go around claiming to be mystics, gurus or spiritual teachers etc and yet to a greater or lesser degree they are just confirming the stereotype you outline. This is just normal human behavior.

As the ideas involved are essentially philosophical outlooks, one should take from them what one finds useful and discard the rest.

The exploitation of the easily led is an unfortunate thing and occurs in all walks of life.
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Name a ''real'' mystic.
 
Like the OP, I've always been curious about Rolfe's Christianity.

Rolfe towers considerably above Dawkins and Hitchens in my mind. She is really my skeptical/literary hero. She and DeeTee stand out in my mind as the two smartest, most intellectually honest folks I've ever encountered/read. I want to be Rolfe when I grow up.

But like the OP, I'm like "Christianity???" What??? HOW???

I guess I'm going to assume it's a loyalty thing?
 
<and continue to chirp>

Punsssh must be off on one of his trips to beyond the event horizon of the formless.
 
kellyb said:
Like the OP, I've always been curious about Rolfe's Christianity.

Rolfe towers considerably above Dawkins and Hitchens in my mind. She is really my skeptical/literary hero. She and DeeTee stand out in my mind as the two smartest, most intellectually honest folks I've ever encountered/read. I want to be Rolfe when I grow up.

But like the OP, I'm like "Christianity???" What??? HOW???

I guess I'm going to assume it's a loyalty thing?
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I hope, possibly vainly, that this will at least suggest to some others here that it is possible, even if not for oneself, to be a Christian and not a fool.
 
bruto said:
I hope, possibly vainly, that this will at least suggest to some others here that it is possible, even if not for oneself, to be a Christian and not a fool.
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But then we get a mass e-mail from DJ that reads, in part:

People really are hurt when they believe supernatural nonsense, and that's why James Randi and the JREF advocate for critical thinking and skepticism as a form of intellectual self defense.
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Am I hurt or hurting others by my belief in God?
 
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