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What a 'defund the police' plan in Seattle might look like

The NY Times accidentally publishes some excellent journalism on what the business owners and residents of the CHOP went through:

Faizel Khan was being told by the news media and his own mayor that the protests in his hometown were peaceful, with “a block party atmosphere.”

But that was not what he saw through the windows of his Seattle coffee shop. He saw encampments overtaking the sidewalks. He saw roving bands of masked protesters smashing windows and looting.

Young white men wielding guns would harangue customers as well as Mr. Khan, a gay man of Middle Eastern descent who moved here from Texas so he could more comfortably be out. To get into his coffee shop, he sometimes had to seek the permission of self-appointed armed guards to cross a border they had erected.
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Eric Hoffer observed that every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business and eventually degenerates into a racket. Black Lives Matter seems to be hustling in that direction:

When a tall man in a trench coat and hiking boots walked over to question Mr. Khan, the man spread his coat open, revealing several pistols on harnesses around his chest and waist. He presented a badge on a lanyard that read “Black Lives Matter Community Patrol.”

His name is Rick Hearns and he identified himself as a longtime security guard and mover who is now a Black Lives Matter community guard, in charge of several others. Local merchants pay for his protection, he said as he handed out his business card.
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Protection indeed.
 
Black people in Portland struggle to be heard amid protests

In June, the City Council cut nearly $16 million from the Police Bureau budget. The cuts shuttered programs like the gun violence reduction unit, a youth services program and ended the presence of school resource officers in three school districts.

In July, the city experienced a sharp rise in gun violence that has overwhelmingly hurt Black people. There were 99 shootings — more than triple the amount from the previous July — and the city has tallied 366 non-suicide shootings this year compared to 388 in all of 2019. Roughly two-thirds of the victims in July were Black, said police Sgt. Derrick Foxworth.

Kimberly Dixon, who lost her son to gun violence in 2013, said the dissolution of the gun violence reduction team has hurt the Black community. Mayor Ted Wheeler said he is working on a solution that will be made public soon.

“You took away the expertise that was there, the relationships that were there,” Dixon said. “That connectivity is important, historical context is important. When you disbanded it, did you rebuild? … This is the carnage that is left in the community.”
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Puppycow said:
Black people in Portland struggle to be heard amid protests
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Violent crime is up across the country, including in cities with little to no protesting or plans to reform their police departments.

Laying this spike of crime at the feet of BLM protests in the context of an extended economic free fall during a pandemic that sees large swaths of people unemployed with very little relief strikes me as heavily motivated reasoning.
 
Speaking of Portland Police and their role in protecting the community:

Demetria Hester was attacked by a racist while riding the MAX yellow line. After being harangued by the avowed neo-Nazi, she left the train and was assaulted with a bottle. She managed to pepper spray the man.

When the police arrived, the assaulter was still on the scene washing his face in a water fountain. The cops refused to place the man under arrest and allowed him to leave the scene.

The next day Jeremy Christian would again launch into a racist tirade on a MAX train. He then stabbed 3 courageous people who intervened, killing 2.

Random unarmed Portlanders on the MAX train are braver than the PPB who allowed a Neo-Nazi to commit a racially based assault and walk away.

https://www.opb.org/news/article/jeremy-christian-demetria-hester-max-train-attack-portland-police/

PPB is bad at their job, despite drawing tremendous resources from the city. It's no mystery why people want to defund this ineffective and oppressive agency and divert the funds to alternatives that might actually serve the public.
 
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I'm curious when white people will actually start listening to people in the black community, rather than just making decisions about what white people think is best for black people.
 
Emily's Cat said:
I'm curious when white people will actually start listening to people in the black community, rather than just making decisions about what white people think is best for black people.
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Yeah, how dare white Seattle people have an opinion about policing. Let's leave it up to the 0.5% of the black population of the city to sort out.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
Yeah, how dare white Seattle people have an opinion about policing. Let's leave it up to the 0.5% of the black population of the city to sort out.
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Sure, sure. When poll after poll of actual black people says "Hey, we don't want the police abolished or cut; we want them held accountable and to not be douches"... but white people are busy insisting that abolishing or defunding the police is "what's best for the black community" I think we might have a bit of a problem.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Sure, sure. When poll after poll of actual black people says "Hey, we don't want the police abolished or cut; we want them held accountable and to not be douches"... but white people are busy insisting that abolishing or defunding the police is "what's best for the black community" I think we might have a bit of a problem.
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There is a subtle racism there- that is missed more often than not by those who have not spent their lives in, or in close proximity to, the "black community".

It is in the assumption that the black community is upset over the killing of George Floyd (amongst others) because he was black, when, more often that community is instead upset over the killing of George Floyd because he was black.

"take him behind the courthouse and shoot him", "lock him up and throw away the key", and "not in my neighborhood" are not sentiments exclusive to the white community.
 
Brainster said:
Yeah, if they're a tiny minority who cares what they have to say?
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It's disingenuous to complain about a high representation of white people at protests in a city where the white people make up a large majority.

I'm not seeing how these calls for police reform are stated in strictly racial terms anyway. Seems like most of the demands are not, in fact, narrowly focused on race.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
It's disingenuous to complain about a high representation of white people at protests in a city where the white people make up a large majority.

I'm not seeing how these calls for police reform are stated in strictly racial terms anyway. Seems like most of the demands are not, in fact, narrowly focused on race.
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Yeah, it sounds to me like the white radicals are piggy-backing on BLM for their purposes, too.

Meanwhile, Seattle moves aheadwith what purports to be a 41% defunding for now, with more to come in 2012:

However, the council recently admitted it would not be able to hit that 50% mark – about $85 million — for 2020, and instead would pass what it could for the 2020 package and focus on getting to that 50% in the 2021 budget, which the council starts work on next month. The council estimates that if enacted annually, the cuts it approved Monday would total 41%.
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I feel certain that getting more sociologists onto the streets will make them safer.
 
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Brainster said:
Yeah, it sounds to me like the white radicals are piggy-backing on BLM for their purposes, too.

Meanwhile, Seattle moves aheadwith what purports to be a 41% defunding for now, with more to come in 2021:



I feel certain that getting more sociologists onto the streets will make them safer.
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Falsifiable prediction: This is going to be a disaster for Seattle.

BTW, here's what Gallup says about the opinions of black Americans:
Black Americans Want Police to Retain Local Presence
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- When asked whether they want the police to spend more time, the same amount of time or less time than they currently do in their area, most Black Americans -- 61% -- want the police presence to remain the same. This is similar to the 67% of all U.S. adults preferring the status quo, including 71% of White Americans.

Meanwhile, nearly equal proportions of Black Americans say they would like the police to spend more time in their area (20%) as say they'd like them to spend less time there (19%).
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Only 19% want less police presence.
 
Distracted1 said:
What is a better indicator?
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According to national polling, defunding the cops is very unpopular, and yet these localities seem to be responding to local pressure to do just that.

Seeing as there's a seeming contradiction there, it's probably best not to rely too heavily on national polls to explain the actions of how city dwellers respond to city police.

What's the response from people who actually live in Seattle? Are the elected officials responding to real popular support, or are they going out on an unsupported limb to support these policies?

National polling is irrelevant.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
According to national polling, defunding the cops is very unpopular, and yet these localities seem to be responding to local pressure to do just that.

Seeing as there's a seeming contradiction there, it's probably best not to rely too heavily on national polls to explain the actions of how city dwellers respond to city police.
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You also missed that Seattle is overwhelmingly white, which means if white voters in Seattle want to refund police but black voters in Seattle don't, well, the police are going to get defunded.
 
Ziggurat said:
You also missed that Seattle is overwhelmingly white, which means if white voters in Seattle want to refund police but black voters in Seattle don't, well, the police are going to get defunded.
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Is there evidence of this? Did I miss some polling data that shows what the people of Seattle actually feel about this?

Even according to national polling shared, black respondents are less opposed to defunding than white respondents. Claiming that the black community in Seattle is opposed to this policy based on national polling is absurd.

I see no evidence that whites are forcing a policy that the black community opposes.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Is there evidence of this? Did I miss some polling data that shows what the people of Seattle actually feel about this?

Even according to national polling shared, black respondents are less opposed to defunding than white respondents. Claiming that the black community in Seattle is opposed to this policy based on national polling is absurd.

I see no evidence that whites are forcing a policy that the black community opposes.
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Hey, look at that- Agreement!
I posted (#15) in this thread that this is something that should definitely be put up for a referendum.
Why do you suppose the City made such a drastic decision without doing that?
 
Distracted1 said:
Hey, look at that- Agreement!
I posted (#15) in this thread that this is something that should definitely be put up for a referendum.
Why do you suppose the City made such a drastic decision without doing that?
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City council members are duly elected officials. If they are out of step with the voting public, then the electoral system can remove them at the end of their term. Why should they offer a referendum? It's their job to govern.

Apparently they felt confident enough to act. Maybe they know something about their constituents you don't.

Referendum are often used when politicians refuse to act, or take action the public doesn't support. If the people of Seattle hate this idea so much, let them launch a referendum to reverse it.
 
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Puppycow said:
Falsifiable prediction: This is going to be a disaster for Seattle.
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We have already seen what the response from the defunders will be. They'll point out that murders are up virtually everywhere (appears to be true), that the Seattle cops are conflating protest graffiti with violent crime (absurd) and they'll point out that use of force complaints are down (they will be, just look at Baltimore for that).

The Hill points out that the cuts (at least for 2020) are not quite as dramatic as the political theater would have us believe:

The Seattle City Council approved measures on Monday that would cut up to 100 police positions and 1 percent of the department’s budget.

The proposal, which Black Lives Matter protesters backed and Mayor Jenny Durkan (D) and Police Chief Carmen Best were against, would take less than $4 million from the department’s $400 million annual budget The Associated Press reported.
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Still the cuts were enough that Seattle's Black female police chief resigned in protest.
 
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