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We Support Democracy and Free Markets ...

Dancing David

Penultimate Amazing
Joined
Mar 26, 2003
Messages
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Location
central Illinois
... except for when we don't.

I am surprised that there are people who claim to support free markets. Yet when the swing comes and the chickens come to roost on bad debt, what do they do? They blame the government and then ask for a bailout.

The market is adjusting to something, I wonder why the price of oil dropped and t-bill sales went up? So maybe let the markets slide a while, let 'market forces' and the 'private sector' do what they are supposed to? After that then come in with the credit bailout. Here is the deal, people loaned money, people borrowed money, and now the chickens have come back. Some people who borrowed money, who shouldn't have are going to loose their homes. Some people who bought high yield mortgage backed securities are going to loose money. Some of us are going to loose our jobs. That is the cycle, what happened to the 'strong fundamentals'? Why is it that they ask for free markets and then complain about them?

And then the false support of democracy, now I understand the partisan nature of politics that is fine. But certain people, who support 'liberty' and democracy, seem to have a problem when it doesn't elect the people they want. Like certain Latin American leaders, they are dictators, while others elected under the same circumstances are 'true supporters of democracy'. When Hammas (who I don't support) is elected then we embargo them, to force 'democracy' on the people.

And when 12 Pubs who were marginal vote against the bailout, they blame Pelosi (not my representative and sort of oooky). Why? Because they can't face democracy. It is sausage making, sometimes the sausage falls on the floor and you have to start over. But why now does ‘bipartisan’ matter so much to a lock step President?

It is supposed to be a deliberative process, with dissenting voices, arguments and consensus. If it doesn't pass the House then you start over, duh.

It is Bill Clinton's fault!
 
DD, you're still drinking the "deregulation caused this" Kool-Aid I see... just ignore the role of Freddie and Fannie and the CRA, just shut your eyes and say (like Nancy Pelosi) "it's all Bush and the Republican's fault!".

Because all those loans to low-income people encouraged and mandated by the government had nothing at all to do with creating this mess.
 
...snip...

Because all those loans to low-income people encouraged and mandated by the government had nothing at all to do with creating this mess.

Despite this being brought up time and time again no one has (at least yet) showed any legislation that forced any company to make bad loans to anyone.
 
DD, you're still drinking the "deregulation caused this" Kool-Aid I see... just ignore the role of Freddie and Fannie and the CRA, just shut your eyes and say (like Nancy Pelosi) "it's all Bush and the Republican's fault!".

Because all those loans to low-income people encouraged and mandated by the government had nothing at all to do with creating this mess.

Another sad drive by posting by someone who can't muster evidence, relies on op-ed pieces as reasearch and then uses invective because they can't use critical thinking?

Sad WildCat, just sad, that is why you run away, no evidence, no research , no data.
 
So WildCat, you got any data, any research, just keeping asserting that your Magic Sky Pixie exists and that they do what you want?

i do not claim this is the best research, but maybe you will want to do more that just baaa and mooo along with your fellow religous zealots/

C'mon Dude, stop being a poseur, come up with some data!

http://www.traigerlaw.com/publicati...inckley_llp_cra_foreclosure_study_1-14-08.pdf
 
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Despite this being brought up time and time again no one has (at least yet) showed any legislation that forced any company to make bad loans to anyone.
Except I have on several occasions. And as soon as I do someone starts a new thread on the same subject and the old one gets buried.

Community Reinvestment Act of 1977, amended in 1994.
 
Gee WC, do you even try to use Google, this is what i found by enetering 'research publications subprime mortgage'
Just a quick google search (ten minutes0
http://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/review/06/01/ChomPennCross.pdf
No mention of the CRA
http://www.springerlink.com/content/k762375605576034/
No CRA here, although there is the neighborhood issue.
http://www.newyorkfed.org/research/staff_reports/sr318.pdf
Not here is 63 pages of sub-prime mortgage securities
http://www.bos.frb.org/news/speeches/rosengren/2007/120307.htm#challenge
CRA mentioned but not as a problem.\ http://www.frbsf.org/publications/economics/letter/2007/el2007-14.html
Not here either!
 
So WildCat, you got any data, any research, just keeping asserting that your Magic Sky Pixie exists and that they do what you want?

i do not claim this is the best research, but maybe you will want to do more that just baaa and mooo along with your fellow religous zealots/

C'mon Dude, stop being a poseur, come up with some data!

http://www.traigerlaw.com/publicati...inckley_llp_cra_foreclosure_study_1-14-08.pdf
Abd what is that link supposed to prove? No data at all in it on the foreclosure rates of CRA loans.

The banks were dragged kicking and screaming to comply with the CRA, and now it's bearing its poison fruit.
 
Except I have on several occasions. And as soon as I do someone starts a new thread on the same subject and the old one gets buried.

Community Reinvestment Act of 1977, amended in 1994.

This is why you lack critical thinking skill as demonstrated by your behavior.

Where is the data, where is the research? If What You Say is True you should be able to find hundreds of published paperes that agree with you.

Where are they?
 
Abd what is that link supposed to prove? No data at all in it on the foreclosure rates of CRA loans.

The banks were dragged kicking and screaming to comply with the CRA, and now it's bearing its poison fruit.


Why don't you try reading it?
So far all you do is spout your dogma, can you back it with any sort of datra or research? try. I am willing to learn, but not from dogma.

Where are the research papers that say the CRA caused the sub-prime crisis?
 
http://www.traigerlaw.com/publicati...inckley_llp_cra_foreclosure_study_1-14-08.pdf
Figure 2a
"High Cost Loans as a Percentage of Total Originations
by CRA Banks (including affiliates) and Other Lenders"
Might show that the percentage of loans started in the CRA is much lower.


Why not try to discuss it?

Figure 4a
'High Cost Loans as a Percentage of Total Originations to LMI Borrowers
by CRA Banks (including affiliates) and Other Lenders"

Shows the same, try to discuss.
 
Gee WC, do you even try to use Google, this is what i found by enetering 'research publications subprime mortgage'
Just a quick google search (ten minutes0
http://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/review/06/01/ChomPennCross.pdf
No mention of the CRA
http://www.springerlink.com/content/k762375605576034/
No CRA here, although there is the neighborhood issue.
http://www.newyorkfed.org/research/staff_reports/sr318.pdf
Not here is 63 pages of sub-prime mortgage securities
http://www.bos.frb.org/news/speeches/rosengren/2007/120307.htm#challenge
CRA mentioned but not as a problem.\ http://www.frbsf.org/publications/economics/letter/2007/el2007-14.html
Not here either!
It's the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about. Who is getting hit hardest by foreclosures DD? Here's a hint from 2006: For Minorities, Signs of Trouble in Foreclosures.

And what encouraged banks to lend in these areas? Hmmmm, that's a toughie! I'm sure it had nothing at all to do with the CRA!
 
Why not try to discuss it?

Figure 4a
'High Cost Loans as a Percentage of Total Originations to LMI Borrowers
by CRA Banks (including affiliates) and Other Lenders"

Shows the same, try to discuss.
Nothing in there shows the foreclosure rates, and that is the issue, isn't it? We do know which areas are getting hit with the highest foreclosure rates - and it isn't upper middle class white areas.
 
Nothing to do with the CRA...
Groene supervises NHS programs in eight Chicago foreclosure hot spots: Auburn Gresham, Back of the Yards, Chicago Lawn-Gage Park, North Lawndale, Roseland, South Chicago, West Humboldt Park and West Englewood. Their foreclosure rates average seven times the national figure.
Hmmmm, who lives in those neighborhoods? Could it possibly be the same people encouraged by the CRA, Freddie and Fannie to buy homes?
 
Except I have on several occasions. And as soon as I do someone starts a new thread on the same subject and the old one gets buried.

Community Reinvestment Act of 1977, amended in 1994.

Please provide the quote from the act that forced companies to make bad loans.
 
Despite this being brought up time and time again no one has (at least yet) showed any legislation that forced any company to make bad loans to anyone.
My mother was ranting and raving to me about this 20 minutes ago. She told me twenty years ago it was almost impossible without a friends help to get a credit card. Nowadays my brother and I get them in the mail every other week. My parents also complain about companies trying to persuade them to take out outrageous loans.
 
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Please provide the quote from the act that forced companies to make bad loans.
Darat, it requires banks to make loans to people of all income levels. It was designed to force banks to make loans to people they wouldn't have otherwise given loans to - because they were risky!

Or are you claiming a law was needed to force banks to make low-risk, profitable loans? :confused:
 
The CRA is actually one of several laws intended to reduce credit-related discrimination, expand access to credit, and shed light on lending activity. The CRA itself focuses on the provision of credit to low- and moderate-income communities.
Source.

Hmmm, and can anyone guess which areas are being hit hardest by foreclosures? Anyone? Bueller?
 

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