VisionFromFeeling - General discussion thread

bookitty said:
As I type this there are approximately 7 gazillion people being wrong on the internet. Any number of which would be thrilled to do the Bloody Keyboard Tango with UY. Alas, my dance card is full, I must decline.
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Okay. Maybe before asking again why it seems like people misunderstand you...

bookitty said:
[...]

Judging from the reactions I get, this is being perceived as defending her. I am interested in understanding why.
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... you'll want to consider that you don't make yourself very clear about some things, and when asked to clarify, you refuse. Add that to the fact that you make assertions which you're unable and/or unwilling to support...

bookitty said:
Make no mistake, she brought this on herself. I am not excusing her behavior. I am only pointing out that the information you're getting is biased.
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... and it makes for very difficult communication. It's not for lack of trying on the part of others.
 
bookitty said:
As I type this there are approximately 7 gazillion people being wrong on the internet. Any number of which would be thrilled to do the Bloody Keyboard Tango with UY. Alas, my dance card is full, I must decline.
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Is your dance card full for everyone? I asked you how presenting the facts about Anita is biased, and never received a reply. I also asked you why quoting her on a claim she continues to stand by is bizarre, and never received a reply to that, either.
 
At which point, you could have just shoved a picture of a sedative within her line of sight. :biggrin:
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HAHAHAHA

If only I had thought of that.

I could have a really big picture waiting, but alas she is lurking so she already knows.
 
GeeMack said:
:D UncaYimmy asked you what you mean by immature, and instead of answering, you know, offering a helpful and meaningful response, you turned the question back around and asked him. :D
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UncaYimmy said:
You brought up the topic of maturity in regards to Anita. I asked you to explain your definition of maturity. I wrote "mature" in quotes while giving examples of people I consider "mature" who exhibit similar behaviors similar to Anita.

I also asked you several other questions in this thread:

1) In what way is it relevant? In other words, explain how you or anyone else should treat her differently based on her maturity level. Why does it matter why she says or does things? Sure, I'm curious about it, but what practical difference does it make?

2) I don't believe she's using her fairy tales to achieve success and self-confidence. On what basis are you making that claim?

3) Why do you say that her life is not together? And what does having her life together have to do with her claims?

4) Who said or even implied that it was a surprise that she said she was an alien?

5) How do you measure her maturity?

6) I made a lengthy post asking you to explain to whom you were comparing Anita and why you concluded she was just like them.

I think it's only courteous to answer the questions put to you when you make claims and assertions.
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desertgal said:
Is your dance card full for everyone? I asked you how presenting the facts about Anita is biased, and never received a reply. I also asked you why quoting her on a claim she continues to stand by is bizarre, and never received a reply to that, either.
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bookitty said:
As I type this there are approximately 7 gazillion people being wrong on the internet. Any number of which would be thrilled to do the Bloody Keyboard Tango with UY. Alas, my dance card is full, I must decline.
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Bookitty, I've bolded your last post and I'd like to ask you what you think a post like this has accomplished? You make statements about Anita Ikonen and then sidestep or outright decline to answer the logical questions that you know will follow. This inevitably stalls the discussion that some of your postings create. I'd certainly like to see an answer from you to the questions other posters have written in regard to your statements about Ms. Ikonen. There seems to be a dichotomy in your feelings about Ms. Ikonen and perhaps you feel you can't really explain the statements you make about her. If that is the case maybe you could simply say "That's the way I feel about Anita Ikonen" and quit brushing off the people wanting answers to the statements you've posted.
 
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psilight said:
On the fateful night a few of us went out to diiner with Anita, I forwarded the idea that when we got to the restaurant, I would tip the waiter ahead of time so that when he brought Anita's plate, it would be covered with a metal cover, which would be whisked away to show an empty plate, whereupoin the waiter would say , "Bon Apetit" or something equally as elegant. Everyone thought that would have been too mean. I wish I had not listened to them...
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:big:

I wish I'd been there. I never listen to the so-called wiser heads and we could have shared the tip.


Cheers, psilight.
 
bookitty said:
Yeah, that was very incorrect phrasing. The "always" was misleading. I am very sorry about that.



Are you kidding. I think she's a messed up kid who really needs to get her life together. Period.
I have no idea what you skeptics (and thanks for the implication that I do not number among them ;) ) think of her. Everything she does seems to be so fascinating. Just a few posts back, someone brought up some stupid thing she wrote on the internet in 2005. To me, that's bizarre. Yeah, she was even less mature when she was 21. How is this even a surprise?
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Yep defending.

She isn't a kid and has been conning people for many years.
 
bookitty said:
I have no idea what you skeptics (and thanks for the implication that I do not number among them ;) ) think of her. Everything she does seems to be so fascinating. Just a few posts back, someone brought up some stupid thing she wrote on the internet in 2005. To me, that's bizarre. Yeah, she was even less mature when she was 21. How is this even a surprise?
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I'm the one who posted the stupid thing she wrote in 2005, partly because it reflects views she still holds in 2010, partly because it shows the con she worked before she began working the con she works now.

Bookitty, I'm certainly pleased you agree that what she thinks is stupid. You shamelessly defend this dangerously unhinged grifter as if there's nothing at stake; sometimes I wonder why, but mainly I don't care. If she's not dangerous and I'm wrong, so what? If she is dangerous and I'm right, then countless people won't fall victim to her.

Vulnerable people fall for her kind of crap all the time. I'm sure sometime in the 1740s Sylvia Browne was an immature, messed-up kid, too. I sure wish someone had stopped her back then. That didn't happen, but I'm sure going to do what I can to stop Anita Ikonen now.

By the way, I've never tried to help her, and I don't care about her personally. I just want to stop her.
 
Oh wait, she's scary now?

Vulnerable people fall for all kinds of crap. But you've met Anita, do you really think she can sell it? What was your initial reaction to her?

So far her greatest success was touring Poland as a breatharian. How well did that go? We don't know. There's no record of how the audience reacted, how much she was paid or even if she wrote the script. What we do know is that just a few years later Anita started saving money to go to college. How does she do it? She gets a job. All those contacts in the woo-world, her great fame as a guru and she becomes a nurse. Now do you really think she turned her back on any possible cash-cow? I doubt it. If the money had been there, she would have gone for it. The money wasn't there.

All the things that make Anita so fun to get all riled up about are the same things that keep her from being trusted.
 
Christa said:
*snip*
I just want to stop her.
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Every once in a while someone comes along and says "let's just stop talking about her". No one ever sticks to that.

Pity. I bet if just one of her nonsensical little demonstrations were ignored something different might happen. I don't really care what.
 
bookitty said:
Oh wait, she's scary now?

Vulnerable people fall for all kinds of crap. But you've met Anita, do you really think she can sell it? What was your initial reaction to her?

So far her greatest success was touring Poland as a breatharian. How well did that go? We don't know. There's no record of how the audience reacted, how much she was paid or even if she wrote the script. What we do know is that just a few years later Anita started saving money to go to college. How does she do it? She gets a job. All those contacts in the woo-world, her great fame as a guru and she becomes a nurse. Now do you really think she turned her back on any possible cash-cow? I doubt it. If the money had been there, she would have gone for it. The money wasn't there.

All the things that make Anita so fun to get all riled up about are the same things that keep her from being trusted.
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No one has ever said she was stupid. With all the practice she keeps being handed by various skeptical organizations, it is only a matter of time before she figures out the right line of patter, and gets better at cold reading. At that point, her results will become more "interesting", and then she will have it made. The idea is to stop her before she reaches that point, otherwise, what is the point? Should we ignore all woo wannabes until they are well established and proven to be harmful, and then try to stop them? Has it occurred to you that she did nursing because there was not enough money in the breatharian thing at the time? Maybe the lack of income from it was the only thing that kept her from entering the woo field full time to fund her education. Who knows, but that is certainly as provable as your assertion that she got a real job because she didn't want to enter the woo economy.

We cut her a lot of slack two years ago. We gave her every opportunity to show that she was earnest in her "investigations" and being a skeptical investigator. 300 kg of Simtek couldn't have burned the bridges as effectively as she has since then. At what point do you think we should stop coddling her, and hand her a reality check? Her reality check bounced long ago, and now the rest of us are are just trying to minimize the damage she could cause in the future, and has actually shown to be capable of.
 
bookitty said:
So far her greatest success was touring Poland as a breatharian. How well did that go? We don't know. There's no record of how the audience reacted, how much she was paid or even if she wrote the script. What we do know is that just a few years later Anita started saving money to go to college. How does she do it? She gets a job. All those contacts in the woo-world, her great fame as a guru and she becomes a nurse. Now do you really think she turned her back on any possible cash-cow? I doubt it. If the money had been there, she would have gone for it. The money wasn't there.
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So you're defending her based on an argument from incredulity and ignorance. Got it.
 
TheSkepticCanuck said:
No one has ever said she was stupid. With all the practice she keeps being handed by various skeptical organizations, it is only a matter of time before she figures out the right line of patter, and gets better at cold reading. At that point, her results will become more "interesting", and then she will have it made. The idea is to stop her before she reaches that point, otherwise, what is the point? Should we ignore all woo wannabes until they are well established and proven to be harmful, and then try to stop them?
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You make an excellent point. Her website is very one-sided and not all indicative of the "public investigation" she claims it to be. Several people, myself included, have had to demand retractions and corrections after being misquoted or having other bits of misinformation misattributed (such as her claims about her results of the IIG test). The StopVFF site contains a large amount of relevant information she has left off her site. Since it's a pull medium, meaning people only find it if the search for her, it's not like she's being harassed as she claims.

Has it occurred to you that she did nursing because there was not enough money in the breatharian thing at the time? Maybe the lack of income from it was the only thing that kept her from entering the woo field full time to fund her education. Who knows, but that is certainly as provable as your assertion that she got a real job because she didn't want to enter the woo economy.
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You can't really make a lot of money selling breatharian meal plans.

Whether she makes money off this stuff is irrelevant. What she says and does is just as dangerous when done for free.
 
TheSkepticCanuck said:
No one has ever said she was stupid. With all the practice she keeps being handed by various skeptical organizations, it is only a matter of time before she figures out the right line of patter, and gets better at cold reading. At that point, her results will become more "interesting", and then she will have it made. The idea is to stop her before she reaches that point, otherwise, what is the point? Should we ignore all woo wannabes until they are well established and proven to be harmful, and then try to stop them? Has it occurred to you that she did nursing because there was not enough money in the breatharian thing at the time? Maybe the lack of income from it was the only thing that kept her from entering the woo field full time to fund her education.
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This is the best argument I've ever seen for any continued interest in Anita. Personally, I think I'm actually getting to the point where I've about run through my stock of interest in her, but these are some good reasons.
 
Maia said:
This is the best argument I've ever seen for any continued interest in Anita. Personally, I think I'm actually getting to the point where I've about run through my stock of interest in her, but these are some good reasons.
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When she's quiet, the MeaniesTM tend to be quiet as well. Truth is most of us simply ignored what she was putting on her website. Traffic on StopVFF and these threads was way down for a couple of months. It was only this latest demonstration at TAM that got people riled up again. Well, that and the fact that allegedly yet another skeptical organization is going to test her.
 
Sean84 said:
Every once in a while someone comes along and says "let's just stop talking about her". No one ever sticks to that.

Pity. I bet if just one of her nonsensical little demonstrations were ignored something different might happen. I don't really care what.
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I think you might have misunderstood me. I've never said "let's just stop talking about her." Stopping Anita means continuing to talk about her "studies" "demonstrations" "tests" and "interesting experiences" until she stops setting them up.
 
Shame.

You are all gossiping about Anita knowing darn well she is unable to defend herself on this thread. I'm calling shame. You know when you did something shameful - guilt you need to make amends for.

Perhaps a few of the young ladies I might spank and get right with morality. You fellows are just doomed in the next life.
 
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